http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/09/leela_part_2_ca.html
LEELA (Part 2): Can a Life Be a Dance?
posted by Deepak Chopra on September 13, 2005 at 11:07 AM
Indians love the concept of seeing creation as a dance between Shiva and Shakti.
It appeals to our sensuous side, and there is a certain maturity to accepting that the cosmos may not be linear or mechanical after all. But beyond the pretty imagery, I don't think many people apply the Leela to their own lives. In what way is the dance of gods and goddesses relevant to you and me?
The practical side of Leela is that besides being a pretty image, it tells us that design is imbedded in chaos. When you are centered in your own dance, this becomes self-evident, because there is no such thing as living randomly. From our center radiates desire, action, process--patterns are formed from the cellular level of the body and the subtle mental levels.
Leela tells us that the basic pattern of life is desire. Knowing that, we can accept our desire nature and not try to repress or judge against it.
Leela is also about the qualities inherent in dance: grace, balance, control. This tells us that life itself has those qualities; therefore, we can aspire to them as individuals.
Leela is centered, because it takes focus to dance. From the intent "I want to dance," the whole body must be organized and set in motion. This tells us that intent and centeredness are linked.
So far, we haven't touched on morality. Leela transcends moral codes, and for many people that's a big problem. They cling to the dualistic world because it rigidly dictates right and wrong (this clinging continues despite the many complaints people utter about being straitjacketed in codes of right and wrong).
But the most basic thing about Leela, as about dance itself, is that play is about delight and freedom. Leela is about the delight and freedom of creation, which somehow we have turned into moral strictures, boundaries, and every kind of restriction. When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief. It's such a burden to approach life as a huge responsibility, to constantly worry about moral codes and social judgments.
Once this initial relief wears off, however, a perplexing phase follows in which play seems impossible to achieve. We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably. You can't throw all of this away and simply start to dance. Not entirely. But you can give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life:
--Ease, lack of struggle
--Appreciation
--Grace
--Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
--Joyousness, innate bliss
--Trust in Nature's organizing power
--Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
--Understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.
I don't think I'm extrapolating or have gotten lost in metaphor. Leela reminds us that when Sat Chit Ananda became manifest, they revealed their nature in a dance.
Comments
deepak - u have encapsulated it so brilliantly. When do we forget that life is actually play ? And that play is far more passionate, more focussed, more real than what we call work.
shekhar
Posted by: shekhar at September 13, 2005 11:21 AM
That's awesome the way you explained that, Deepak. I'm going to have to copy it and continue to read over it. I don't want to miss any of what you are saying, because it feels so right to me.
Thanks.
Love, Kristin
Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 13, 2005 11:27 AM
Dearest Deepak . . . hope all is well. Shekhar and Kristin have expressed the beauty of your words . . .thank you for reminding us about the on going dance for love . . .knowingness and bliss . . .an incredible awakening for our souls! Take care . . .love . . .Laila
Posted by: Laila at September 13, 2005 11:48 AM
Deepak,
That was complete..wholesome and very gratifying.I wanted to immediately begin by exercising 'ease,lack of struggle'as of now.
A naging thought arose though with alacrity which is that how do you explain this play of delight and freedom,this dance of grace, balance and control And sat chit anada manifested ,to a hungry stomach? How do you explain to him that intent and centredness are linked?Why would he care? Is the 'chintan manan 'on these existential truths therefore, a prerogative only for the privileged few like us who can devote half a day to verbalising our spiritual concerns?
Would not such an individual, whose reality is staring him starkly in the face, balk at the idea of terming it as Leela! I do not know whether I have made my point. But I work a lot with the under privileged and inadvertently hypothecate their reactions to a given situation more often than I like. Though here I would like to furnish you this information that there is The vippassana meditation centre which is frequented by me and many of these on a regular basis. despite its severe rules of complete Silence for 10days and eating once a day. So its not as if they have resigned themselves to their fate. Constant endeavour to better their next life , is what they tell me is their guiding force. For me its a humbling and joyous experience to be around these great souls. . 'understanding that your life has a purpose that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos'
Thank You Deepak
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 12:10 PM
I once had the immense privilege of teaching a group of 8 year old girls some basic dance & movement steps for a school presentation. At the end of each session I gave them time for "free dance". I would play rock music, jazz, classical and my favourite part was when I would say, "imagine you're a ballerina". It was during this time that all of the awkwardness, anxiety and tension of learning the required steps for their presentation would drop and they became graceful, beautiful and even sensuous.
I realize that the dance of Leela is metaphoric but I think the physical dance releases something deep, primal, even archetypal in us. I try to get some time to dance every day to remind me of that.
Love, Sheba
Posted by: Sheba at September 13, 2005 12:14 PM
Thanks Deepak. I wonder why it is so hard to let go in spite of knowing the nature of Leela (at least conceptually)?
Posted by: Divya at September 13, 2005 12:34 PM
.
Wow..
Love, passion, and the Law of Least Effort ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 12:41 PM
DEEPAK:
"Once this initial relief wears off, however, a perplexing phase follows in which play seems impossible to achieve. We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably."
I'm feeling that today.
Some one in an earlier post (possibly Leela part one that the ego doesn't like us to participate in activities that would expose it for what it is. Perhaps I'm feeling the "ego blues".
Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:46 PM
Dear Deepak,
Thanks for beautifully explaining Leela and How life can be a Dance.
Love,
Venky
Posted by: Venky at September 13, 2005 12:48 PM
Ease of life? Maybe you don't see reality around you. Life is not about ease --it's about grace towards ourself and others when life is NOT easy.
Posted by: navina at September 13, 2005 12:51 PM
Some one in an earlier post (possibly Leela part one) stated that the ego doesn't like us to participate in activities that would expose it for what it is. Perhaps I'm feeling the "ego blues".
Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:51 PM
NAVINA:
"Life is not about ease --it's about grace towards ourself and others when life is NOT easy."
Could not what you describe been known as Ease of life?
Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:53 PM
Deepak, you have put it very nicely :-)
Posted by: Krish at September 13, 2005 02:38 PM
Dear Deepak, Wow! Talk about Synchrodestiny! Earlier today, I found myself mired down in the chaos of my life. Then I read,
...it tells us that design is imbedded in chaos. When you are centered in your own dance, this becomes self-evident, because there is no such thing as living randomly. From our center radiates desire, action, process--patterns are formed from the cellular level of the body ...
and I "got" it. Thank you. Namaste.
Ann
Posted by: Ann at September 13, 2005 02:48 PM
By reading these postings and seeing how each one has a different perception of these Hindu truths, I feel somewhat relieved myself. That is to say I no longer feel so stuck, rigidly, in my own perception for some reason. I'm glad this happened because now my I view my intellect as being somehow softer and gentler and my intellectual conceptions no longer matter so much. "The guru can but point the way, the path is one for all, the means to reach the goal must vary with the pilgrim." --Buddhist precept My intellectual conceptions are part of the "means" that I use. There is no way I could give them all to someone else and expect them to receive them. This may not make much sense but it does to me.
Posted by: Sherry at September 13, 2005 03:28 PM
What music do they listen to when they dance?
Perhaps trance?
I think if we could somehow get the whole world to stop what they were doing for one day and simply dance, lets call it a Peace Dance, so that we could have one day without conflict it lead to some unity. We could call it the day the whole world danced.
It would not be associated with any religion just expression of the spirit.
If I could I would buy the beer.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 03:32 PM
Deepak,
In part one of the Leela and Dance, you did a great job of defining what Leela is -"Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity."
Both articles are superb. This is what came to my mind about Leela transcending moral codes and our heritage being not moral. I would probably clarify or use different wording. The purpose of Moral code is to prevent human beings from aggressive behaviors and to help achieve some harmony in life in the universe. It does impose restrictions on lives. I agree, while in Leela, one accepts and enjoys all the diverse things in the universe, free from all restrictions. It is not that moral code does not apply to Leela but there is no aggressive intention whatsoever in it and nothing immoral there. (I say this because there were instances of immoral practises in the name of spiritual freedom.)Acceptance of everything in this state probably implies ignoring or forgiving the immoral. Similarly, by "our heritage is not moral" you did not mean that it is immoral but may be some clarification such as "what is right and what is wrong depends on the context, there is no absolute right and absolute wrong" would be helpful.
Posted by: Syamala at September 13, 2005 03:33 PM
I think moral code is a very detrimental thing. It is used to induce shame, guilt, and control.
Sexuality, the life force, is supressed by many "moral codes" this is causing major problems in society.
If we see our self in others there is no need for moral codes. In fact moral code supports the illusion we are separate.
If you want one rule to teach children then teach them to always work to create a good experience for their Self behind every point of view.
There is this concept of the Anti-Christ well I would put moral codes as a product of such a thing, especially since they are so much based on "religion".
Take the Bonobos Tribe for example, they have no moral code and they have a conflict free society.
http://www.newswire.pro/brass_monkey_mystery_linked_to_t.htm
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 05:04 PM
Deepak, thank you for this. You are constantly enlarging my understanding!
Symala, you suggest that Deepak qualify his statement that "our heritage is not moral" with words to indicate that right and wrong are contextual, that "there is no absolute right and absolute wrong."
What happens if we leave out the word "absolute?" "There is no right and there is no wrong." Where does that leave us?
Posted by: Carol at September 13, 2005 05:27 PM
Hello,
This is beautiful Deepak. Learning about Leela, the dance, brings feminine images to my mind, despite the non-dual nature that it is. Maybe in part because the name sounds female to me, or because I am a woman and thus identify with this dance through a feminine perspective. Is Leela considered to be feminine?
Posted by: Kristie at September 13, 2005 05:42 PM
I wonder when was it that we lost contact we the dance of the Universe ? When we came out of the caves, when we started to organize society around religion and politics, when we abandom the barter system for the currency system?
Posted by: Ramon at September 13, 2005 06:04 PM
-Ease, lack of struggle
-Appreciation
-Grace
-Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
-Joyousness, innate bliss
-Trust in Nature's unorganizing power
-Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
-Understanding that your life has purpose (Dharma)that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.
I had an incredibly spiritual? awakening? enlightening? (I'm not sure what you'd choose to call it) weekend. I have felt an awesome shift in awareness and I believe I experienced all of these points Deepak mentions referring to Leela.
Knowledge and communication are the keys for me.
Deepak, after reading this blog and the positive responses you've gotten I'm feeling "buzzed" again. Thanks to everyone for the wonderful comments.
Gemin
Posted by: Gemin at September 13, 2005 06:38 PM
“But the most basic thing … is that play is about delight and freedom. Leela is about the delight and freedom of creation …. When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief ....
“You can't throw all of this away and simply start to dance. Not entirely. But you can give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life:
--Ease, lack of struggle
--Appreciation
--Grace
--Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
--Joyousness, innate bliss
--Trust in Nature's organizing power
--Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
--Understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.
I don't think I'm extrapolating or have gotten lost in metaphor. Leela reminds us that when Sat Chit Ananda became manifest, they revealed their nature in a dance.” ~ Deepak Chopra
I think I just died and went to heaven :-) Thank you Deepak!
Love,
Char
Posted by: char at September 13, 2005 06:50 PM
Whoa, were we on the same wavelength Char?
Gemin
Posted by: Gemin at September 13, 2005 06:57 PM
"But the most basic thing ... is that play is about delight and freedom ... about the delight and freedom of creation.
When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief."
Dear Deepak,
Can you find contentment - when spirituality really clicks in. For I find one 'missing' ingredient to the fullfillment of life's experience, is to be able to reside in contentment.
The dictionary description is not satisfactory - I long to 'discover' contentment in the realm that doesn't come and go with desires fullfilled or thwarted.
Does clear awareness - bring lasting contentment? Or consciousness, is the word I often read here in the posts.
And of course, to see this come alive, in my experience, right here, right now.
It would mean alot to me to able to discuss and illuminate this 'concept'.
Thank you so much.
Love,
~~ K
Posted by: K at September 13, 2005 07:28 PM
I think a good example of the dance and no real need for a moral code, and the true nature of humanity can be found on the road. Whenever I have my doubts about people and society I think about this.
Where I live there is a great amount of traffic as I am sure there is in most places. It is true we have traffic lights yet these would not be enough to allow traffic to flow. There are many places were there are not traffic lights. There is nothing to orchestrate the merging of cars into the flow.
There are no laws saying that we must stop and let people out into the flow. There are no laws or rules saying we must make a space so that another can merge into the flow.
Yet people do.
People, who are simply strangers, will stop and let you out into traffic in front of them. They will make a space so you can squeeze into the flow.
I have seen an onramps where it was bumper to bumper and each car will let one car from the ramp into the flow like a perfect dance. Yet there is no written rule. There is no discrimination it does not matter your sex or color or ethnic origin.
It seems that there is something to be said by these phenomena.
Of course there are the exceptions, and 98% of the time when someone cuts me off or is driving very aggressively I say to myself….
Ah I must be late to get somewhere, as I smile and watch myself ahead weave to and fro.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 08:10 PM
Deepak, you say:
"We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably."
“And your solution is:
“…..give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life: Ease, lack of struggle, appreciation, grace, freedom, particularly the free flow of desire, joyousness, innate bliss, trust in nature's organizing power, knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance, understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.”
Your solution is a way AROUND the problem, after accepting the problem as an inexorable force.
But there is a much better way. It comes NOT from accepting the problem as unstoppable, and NOT on how to get around the problem – but from inquiring into what is causing the problem in the first place.
What causes the problem of being “full of conditioned responses” is the conditioning itself. Conditioning itself is not to be found at the same level as responses. It is found one level deeper than the level of attitudes and intentions; two levels behind the operating level of responses, actions and behaviors. It is found in our conceptual domain.
Conditioning is made up of conceptual objects, such as memories, knowledge and assumptions that were uploaded into us when we were growing up, when we were not in a position to evaluate and choose the conditioning that was being pumped into us. And duality, being a conceptual phenomenon, is also part of the conditioned content.
So instead of considering conditioned responses and the machinery of duality to be unstoppable, we should follow what causes it - to the point BEFORE the machinery of duality begins to roll, by PREVENTING it from starting to roll in the first place.
This is done by developing the serious habit and eventually, expertise, of focusing on and scanning the content of one’s conditioning, evaluating and editing and correcting one’s conditioning, so that the falseness of granularity, the falseness of duality, and the falseness of the ego are all discovered and purged from one’s conceptual system.
Yes, Deepak, life can indeed be a dance.
But dance should not be regarded as a strategy or a solution to the intractable problems of conditioning, duality, and ego.
Dance is not a means around the effects of conditioning, it is the ever increasing manifestation of the dismantling of conditioning.
Dance should be enjoyed freely as the expression of the increasing spontaneity that comes from our liberation from conditioning, duality and ego, which allows us to move ever more with the grace and beauty of our original being – as consciousness and spirit.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 13, 2005 09:21 PM
Deepak and other peaceful ones,
What about the "dancer with no beat"-- the toe cruncher or the stiff swaying one? Are these individual expressions of our differences or is this the opposite that exists and needs to exist to make the movements flow.
Are the apprehensions felt in the dance a symbol for the insecurities we hold in living..?
Dancing for many brings up many issues and for some they just dance without a care in the world. Their hearts are at peace and free.
"Move with the vibrations from eternal sounds..
Allowing the music exalted from your soul to run free in the cosmos of eternity. The sweet steps and movements from left to right shall provide an expression of your light...."
Peace and love,
Suzanne
Posted by: suzanne at September 13, 2005 09:33 PM
Thought()
Input = thought
Is this a fear based thought?
If yes then discard
end if
Else
Is this a Love based thought
If yes then store or process
end if
Else > is this a rational thought?
If yes then maintain or store for analysis
Else Discard
Next thought
Loop Until Sleep = Yes
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 10:05 PM
Ravi,
That was BRILLIANT.. 'Dance is not a means around the effects of conditioning it is the ever increasing manifestation of the dismantling of conditioning.'
I read somewhere that we all grow up with the weight of history on us. Our ancestors dwell in the attics of our brains as they do in the spiralling chains of knowledge hidden in every cell of our bodies. The thinking man though under a divine curse will liberate himself through knowledge and awareness and will penetrate the veil of illusion.
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 10:39 PM
It's beautiful, both Leela and your post.
It's also the reason I answered the way I did on the "cancer" post.
"...However, because I have a certain amount of faith that this whole physical experience is "all good", ultimately I love the entire process...
In the end, the very end, I know that my spirit will appreciate the entire story as a whole no matter how it actually unfolds."
Posted by: Melanie at September 13, 2005 11:54 PM
It's beautiful, both Leela and your post.
It's also the reason I answered the way I did on the "cancer" post.
"...However, because I have a certain amount of faith that this whole physical experience is "all good", ultimately I love the entire process...
In the end, the very end, I know that my spirit will appreciate the entire story as a whole no matter how it actually unfolds."
Posted by: Melanie at September 13, 2005 11:54 PM
Leela is Prakriti..
Leela is celebrating life..
Lee'la is 'la affaire'..
Leela is 'Joy de vivre'..
Leela is 'just-being-you'!
Posted by: Peter Pan at September 14, 2005 01:42 AM
;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 02:21 AM
P. Pan: Sometimes we "forget" who we are--children playing (or Leela-ing), capable of "flying" anywhere at anytime--except when we use our unlimited powers of imagination--to forget!
Sooo....Peter--thinking of you! Always, and in All-Ways, My Unconditional Love to You--T. Bell
Posted by: David at September 14, 2005 02:22 AM
I think Peter Pan would like to dance..the English wals? Neverland or Disneyworld?
On the soul´s journey on the path to love,
or was it god or onconditional love?
synchrodestiny or tinkerbell is a nice companion,
Flying from one christmas to another,
in a space-time continuum,
But where´s Jane? with an applepie?
in any case,
A wild, non-stop freeweeling adventure!
http://livindreamswithpassion2.blogspot.com/
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 03:43 AM
http://badboyzinpoland.blogspot.com/
Love, Passion! and a smile ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 03:49 AM
An observation:
The result of any of Richard's tests will be YES or NO depending upon what is already in the memory.
What is fear-based to one may not be fear-based to another, and so on.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 05:38 AM
Deepak Ji
You express the inexpressible like only you can. I read your words today as bursts of lightness and joy and then for a long while I just sit and marvel at how you capture the essence and also manage to embellish it. Truly, truly words are your dance.
And then your words danced their way to the immortal words of two others. Suddenly I remembered Kalidasa's epic poem Kumarsambhava, the erotic, lyrical masterpiece of the great dance of ecstacy between Shiva and Parvati(Shakti). And of course the inimitable Rumi on the Leela of dance;
“Dance, when you’re broken open.
Dance, if you’ve torn the bandage off.
Dance in the middle of the fighting.
Dance in your blood.
Dance when you are perfectly free.”
Thank You for a day filled with so much resonance
Love
Jasjit
Posted by: Jasjit at September 14, 2005 06:02 AM
Carol ,
By 'absolute' I guess I was just trying to emphasize that something cannot be labeled right or wrong without looking at the context. There is a famous story of a Satyavaadi meaning truth speaker. Satyavaadi practised the principle -do not lie. He never lied in his life. One day, when he was doing his meditation with closed eyes, he heard running foot steps and openning his eyes saw a scared man running for his life. The man went behind a bush and hid himself. He closed his again and went back to meditation. After a few minutes, he again heard thumping foot steps. On opening his eyes, he saw some armed men apparently in search of the man running away from them. When they saw Satyavaadi, they stopped and asked him whether he saw anybody pass by him, if so, whether he knew where he is because they want to catch him. It was clear to Satyavadi that the armed men would harm the scared man hiding behind the bush, if they find him. Satyavaadi, who would never fail in his principle of telling truth pointed the bush. The men then caught the man and killed him. After sometime, Satyavadi died and was taken to hell instead of to heaven. He asked Yama, the god of death, " I always spoke truth and never told a lie in my life, why didn't you send me to heaven?". Yama replied " You spoke truth alright. But you showed the robbers where the scared man hid. You could have saved his life by not telling truth. You did not have compassion. That is why you deserve punishment but not heaven. The implication is: compassion is right in this case but not telling truth which led to the killing
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 06:24 AM
Thanks for the story Syamala. It gets your point across very well. Even though our ethics are context-based, the fear of literal interpretation was always present even in our society.
I think people tend to mix up various levels of abstraction while discussing these matters. At the ultimate Shiva/Shakti level there is no duality or notion of morality. But at the level of our mundane lives we do need to abide by codes of conduct and a sense of right and wrong.
Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 06:31 AM
Thanks, Syamala and Divya. I agree completely, thanks for expressing this so well.
Posted by: Carol at September 14, 2005 08:27 AM
Actually Shakti is the phenomenon of dance emerging from the dancer -Shiva.
Both are inseparable. The static aspect of Shakti is Shiva and the dynamic aspect of Shiva is shakti.
The ardhanarishwer - Shiva as half-male, half-female.
This is more or less same as the brahma and maya of Vedanta or purusha and prakriti of Yoga.
The inactive, static Shiva is like the eye of a storm - void, empty, devoid of any activity. Nishkriya.
But on the locus and foundation of this empty eye the entire phenomenon of storm is created.
So why the heck universe is created out of the shiva-shakti - just for the purpose of Leela. And leela in turn is purposeless !
However, at the mundane level, like deepak said - We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably.
Notwithstanding, mixing up of various levels of abstraction is not only accepted but encouraged in tantra bcs tantra disdains being straitjacketed in codes of right and wrong
Posted by: Kailash Khandelwal at September 14, 2005 09:07 AM
Kaveetaa,
There is no divine curse. Only a divine blessing. The forms and structures the divine generated were designed to afford the divine less boredom and more excitement.
Bondage is an unavoidable and necessary step in evolution for the One Intelligence (divine, if you like) to rise to the more complex levels of being, and thus, to the higher delight of managing One's own Body, the physical universe - as an interdependent multividual - several billions strong.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 09:22 AM
G,
I am stupid 50% of the time.(You are more intelligent, but that means you are still stupid 49.99% of the time.)
Last time I told you about my Enlightenment. That's the intelligent half. After the two hours in the park, I got a parking ticket. That's the stupid half.
I am obsessed with STUPIDITY all my life.
BUDDHA says,"STUPIDITY is the mother of all suffering."
How true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have studied all cultures on STUPIDITY.
In China, it is manifestated in its marshal arts. The first master created 10 perfect forms that were the best of the best. He taught his son 9 of them so that he was still the father & the best. The son taught his son 8 of the 9. By the tenth generation, there was only one form left.............. The perpetuity of ignorance.
In India, the saint found the truth. When he taught his disciples he added some myth onto it & his disciples did the same, & after the 10th generation, it's all myth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............................The perpetuity of ignorance.
In the West, they simply preach STUPIDITY.
There is this stupid place called Heaven. There is this stupid guy called God. If you are so stupid as to believe in them, you will end up in Heaven & with God.
51% of the people believe in IT.
Einstein said time & stupidity are the two infinite things on earth.
That means suffering is with us for ever.
The answer: keep it simple, you stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 14, 2005 10:18 AM
DEAREST DEEPAK,
I LEARNED ONE WORD LONG TIME AGO AND CHANGED MY LIFE AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT I TOLD THEM ABOUT IT. "DEDENSELESSNESS"
I AM PERSIAN AND HAVE A VOICE THAT SO MANY PEOPLES TIMES AND TIMES TOLD ME THAT IS VERY SOOTHING..I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE IT IN ONE OF YOUR CD... I LOVE RUMI AND HAVE ALL HIS POEMS AND EVERY THURSDAY NIGHT AT MY HOUSE IN HOUSTON TEXAS HAVE PRAYING AND MEDITATING AND ALWAYS PLAY YOUR CD. I SAW YOU LAST NIGHT AT UNITY CHURCH WAS WOUNDERFUL.LOVE DR. LILLIE TAAT
Posted by: LILLIE TAAT at September 14, 2005 10:24 AM
Divya,
I agree literal interpretation of morals and ethics is and was present in all soceties. It is because our selfishness ignores the guidance from that compassionate conscience (or consciousness) deep down which precisely knows what is right in any given context. We tend to interpret the code to suit our convenience.
I also agree that it is hard to pick suitable language to describe these abstract concepts that we are discussing and that is why the need for clarification to prevent conveying of unintended meaning.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 11:02 AM
More on trying to understand what is meant by "Leela transcends moral codes". There is nothing immoral going on in Leela and therefore there is no need for checking for moral codes there. I guess I do not understand why even talk about moral code in the context of Leela. To say that moral codes are causing a lot of problems in life and those problems do not exist in Leela because it is free of moral code is misleading. The suggestion that supression of sexuality by many moral codes is causing major problems in society is an example. It may be true. But freedom of sexuality creates problems as well if not more. We know promiscuity spreads AIDS. A pedophile would argue that he is doing nothing wrong. We heard about Rajnish, who called himself Bhagavan and Yogi,led a movement of sexual freedom and encouraged promiscuity among his followers. He certainly does not represent any Indian spiritual tradition, and for that matter any spiritual tradition. Such behaviors are not part of Leela.
Similarly, when Deepak says "Leela tells us that the basic pattern of life is desire. Knowing that, we can accept our desire nature and not try to repress or judge against it", we should not interpret it to condone our greed and lust thinking that we are in the state of Leela.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 12:05 PM
Actually, Lord Sri Krishna's life was said to be full of Leela. He was the lover of all Gpoikas. Many Indians do think that he was a play boy. I for one do not think that he was a play boy in the literal sense of the word but that his relationship with Gpoikas is symbolically carries a certain spiritual meaning.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 12:27 PM
Syamala - the phrase one generally hears is that "all this creation is god's leela". This refers to all of creation, including the dewdrops and rainbows on one hand and earthquakes and hurricanes on the other. This has its counterpart in human activity too, with compassion and heroism on one side and rage and spite on the other. Thus when they say leela transceds morals, I understand it to mean that this creation is what it is - just a play - it is not about being good or bad but more just a constant cause and effect cycle. However, at the human level, in order to go through life safely and soundly we need to develop some morals otherwise we'd go nuts.
Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 01:30 PM
If you remove all human beings on earth, then who decides what is moral or immoral?
The dewdrops and the rainbows would still be there, so would be earthquakes and hurricanes. All the processes of nature would still flow but without human distinctions of one being bad and other good.
Leela is the all-encompassing process of creation (sans mind). It is neither moral nor immoral.
Mind creates all the distinctions, good bad, ugly, moral, immoral, even the notion of cause and effect!
I am reminded of UG when he said - All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind , otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum.
Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!
Posted by: Kailash Khandelwal at September 14, 2005 02:52 PM
Ravi,
You said it very well "Dance should be enjoyed freely as the expression of the increasing spontaneity that comes from our liberation from conditioning, duality and ego, which allows us to move ever more with the grace and beauty of our original being – as consciousness and spirit." Life when free from ego is dance.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 06:49 PM
Tyan quoted the Buddha: "STUPIDITY is the mother of all suffering"
Yes, Tyan, but bad conditioning is the mother of stupidity.
We may not be able to address stupidity. But you are wrong about suffering having to be with us for ever.
This is because we can address and correct conditioning.
Instead of wasting your time and ours preaching there is nothing we can do about suffering, let's find more and better ways for us to focus on our conditioning, and to clean it up.
As our conditioning gets cleansed of errors and contradictions, our stupidity should decrease.
And as our stupidity decreases, so will our suffering. And that's when we dance.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 07:47 PM
Kailash says:
"Mind creates all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral even the notion of cause and effect"
We seem to be mixing the false with the true here.
First of all, mind is a useless term, because it means different things to everyone who reads it, and therefore compounds confusion.
I suggest you start trusting your feelings from today. They may not be very acccurate at this time, given that you have been blunting their impact in your life.
However, as your conditioning gets gradually cleaned up from the scrutiny of your own consciousnes, the accuracy of your feelings will improve, and you will be able to navigate ever more accurately toward the most that you can be.
It is more useful to refer to the content of mind. The content of mind is conceptual, with memories, assumptions and imaginations.
Unfortunately, the most important conceptual content of our mind are our foundational convictions, such as our sense of self, and how the self relates to spirit, mind, matter, others, other creatures, and the rest of nature.
Virtually all of these convictions are conditioned into us early in life, first through our parents, and then through our teachers, long before we are aware that this uploading is taking place.
So the foundation of the content of our mind, our core identity assumptions, are conditioned into us.
So what you say about "all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral" might be true, because this stuff is conditioned into us.
But this is definitely not true of "cause and effect". This we can experience directly. We all use electricity, computers, networks, phones, cars, elevators, trains, and even planes. We take these things for granted, as being entirely reliable, because the knowledge on which they are constructed is based on cause and effect. Highly reliable cause and effect.
Take a more immediate example. These words are being written as an effect to the cause of your having written that earlier post from which I quoted you. If you hadn't written that post, these words wouldn't have been here.
So please don't repeat what someone else says simply because you respect him. Consider what is true or false from your own direct experience, and that is the beginning of correcting your conditioning.
When your experience contradicts your beliefs, that's when your beliefs have to be deleted and replaced with your truth.
Let's now get to another passage from your post. You quote UG:
"All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind , otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum.
Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!"
Yes, as we saw above, the conceptual content needs to be investigated. But not in the sense UG meant. The UG quote here refers to emotional input.
The feelings evoked by the sensory input of the barking of a dog and the 5th symphony are emotional responses, not mental responses. Feeling is a function of consciousness, not of the content of mind.
(For those who are still conditioned to regard themselves as their bodies, have replaced their true self, consciousness, with the Ego. And the Ego can distort our feelings. But even then, we can still distinguish coherence from meaninglessness, a word from a sound, music from noise.
Why should we devalue the only compass we have on this treacherous landscape of this dimension? If we stop trusting our feelings about the meaning or absence of it, we are truly lost, for then we would not be able to distinguish what can hurt or destroy us from what can heal or enhance us.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 08:20 PM
Kailash and others: Please ignore my preceding post to Kailash because the sequence of what I wrote somehow got garbled when I posted it to the blog. Here follows the correct sequence of my post to him:
----------------------------
Kailash says:
"Mind creates all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral even the notion of cause and effect"
We seem to be mixing the false with the true here.
First of all, mind is a useless term, because it means different things to everyone who reads it, and therefore compounds confusion.
It is more useful to refer to the content of mind. The content of mind is conceptual, with memories, assumptions and imaginations.
Unfortunately, the most important conceptual content of our mind are our foundational convictions, such as our sense of self, and how the self relates to spirit, mind, matter, others, other creatures, and the rest of nature.
Virtually all of these convictions are conditioned into us early in life, first through our parents, and then through our teachers, long before we are aware that this uploading is taking place.
So the foundation of the content of our mind, our core identity assumptions, are conditioned into us.
So what you say about "all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral" might be true, because this stuff is conditioned into us.
But this is definitely not true of "cause and effect". This we can experience directly. We all use electricity, computers, networks, phones, cars, elevators, trains, and even planes. We take these things for granted, as being entirely reliable, because the knowledge on which they are constructed is based on cause and effect. Highly reliable cause and effect.
Take a more immediate example. These words are being written as an effect to the cause of your having written that earlier post from which I quoted you. If you hadn't written that post, these words wouldn't have been here.
So please don't repeat what someone else says simply because you respect him. Consider what is true or false from your own direct experience, and that is the beginning of correcting your conditioning.
When your experience contradicts your beliefs, that's when your beliefs have to be deleted and replaced with your truth.
Let's now get to another passage from your post. You quote UG:
"All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind, otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum. Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!"
Yes, as we saw above, the conceptual content needs to be investigated. But not in the sense UG meant. The UG quote here doesn’t refer to a conceptual response. It refers to the emotional response.
The feelings evoked by the sensory input of the barking of a dog and the 5th symphony are emotional responses, not mental responses. Feeling is a function of consciousness, not of mind or its contents.
(Those who are still conditioned to regard themselves as their bodies, and have therefore replaced their true self, consciousness, with the Ego. The Ego can certainly distort our feelings. But even then, we can still distinguish coherence from meaninglessness, a word from a sound, music from noise. That is where consciousness is so different from mind.
Why should we devalue the only compass we have on this treacherous landscape of this worldly dimension? If we stop trusting our feelings about the meaning or absence of it, we are truly lost, for then we would not be able to distinguish what can hurt or destroy us from what can heal or enhance us.
Kailash, I suggest you start trusting your feelings from today. They may not be very acccurate at this time, assuming from your post that you have been blunting their impact in your life.
However, as your conditioning gets gradually cleansed by the scrutiny of your consciousness, you will become more alert to your feelings, the accuracy of your feelings will improve, and you will be able to navigate ever more accurately toward the most that you can be.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 08:33 PM
Well said Ravi. We seriously need more down-to-earth souls on this blog.
Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 09:26 PM
You can't teach an old spinster new tricks, as the saying goes.
I have spent more than 40 years with the Zen Buddhist camp. And finally I got my Enlightenment & my final payout was a parking ticket!!!
After that experience, I seem to have acquired a brand new pespective in life. Suffering is no suffering any more. Although I still have CML, still having blood test every week, bone marrow test every 3 months, & doubling my Gleevec dosage......& all the guys I try to pick up in the street.........
My favourite line,"Have you made love to a 50 year old spinster before?" Then I grinned & said, "Me neither!!!!", 10 seconds later.
I love to watch men's expression in their faces following that.
As a revenge for all the muslim women in this world!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And there was this Katrina hurricane(& they blame it all on wemen again!!!). I just sent in my Red Cross donation, less the parking ticket, of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would a traffic officer give a parking ticket to a chronically ill cancer patient??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Everyone has an answer !!!!!!
Conditioning!!!!!!!!
You can't condition me any more. You wise guy!!
You gurus!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 15, 2005 04:52 AM
Tyan,
You said, "In the West, they simply preach STUPIDITY. There is this stupid place called Heaven. There is this stupid guy called God. If you are so stupid as to believe in them, you will end up in Heaven & with God."
This is not indicative of the west and the west is actually just like ever other culture opposed to God and His ways.
You only say these things about God and Heaven that because you don't believe God to be supremely valuable. You say it is stupid because you believe that ending suffering is supremely valuable. The ultimate ends in your life seems to me to end suffering.
To me the scriptures are clear that their are forms of sufferings are there to help us grow in the faith. Consider the words of Peter, Jesus' well known disciple.
1 Peter 1:3-9
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
To me the Glory of God and His greatness is supremely valuable above the desire to end my own suffering. Obviously we are to work to end needless suffering, but the ultimate ends in my life is God and His greatness.
Posted by: Shawn Lynes at September 15, 2005 06:51 AM
Dear Deepak:
Your post warmed me all over to paraphrase a verse from an old pop song. On a serious note, I want to thank you for trying to make all of us remember--life and death (Kali/Shiva)what an incredible dance.
Sura
Posted by: sura at September 15, 2005 06:50 PM
Shawn Lynes,
GOD to me is timeless, plural, almighty, omnipotent, omnipresent....more than any imagination of mankind.
Some wise man says, "GOD give us life, & compassion & love. The devil gives us religions."
All religions demean GOD because out of their STUPIDITY, they think they can represent & speak for GOD.
According to Mr. Woodwards, little bush talked to his Father up in Heaven & not to his earthly father who was also the President of America before he started the war in Iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you imagine this in America in the 20th Century?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Mr. Chopra didn't speak against it.
Nobody did.
Thus all the suffering!!!!
Little bush promise you everything. Only GOD can deliver.
Posted by: Tyan at September 16, 2005 08:44 PM
I think of Asia as the grandparents (whose wisdom is often neglected). I think of Europe and the MidEast as the parents and in-laws,(always feuding among themselves.) I think of America as the rebellious teenager, lacking manners, wanting freedom, and not knowing how to get it. America's political policys in the world have been shameful...the Shah of Iran, leaving our Vietnamese friends, bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There was a movie called "The Ugly American" which spoke to this. So it is not so much the rest of the world we have to watch out for, it is us. In school we learned to read and write. Now we have to read and write. Speaking to the cultural education into which one has been born, (maybe that was another site), but as Ram Dass exclaimed, "I've been had!".
Posted by: Sherry at September 18, 2005 08:16 AM
Sherry: Ditto about your human analogies regarding the various "ages" of different cultures and locations.
Isn't Ram Dass sooo....fun and cool! Dave
Posted by: David at September 18, 2005 09:23 AM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The life of Patacara,
a woman who lived in India at the time of the Buddha, a real strong, young, & beautiful woman.
(dedicated to the most privileged & the most intelligent!)
[Time 550 B.C.] When her parents picked out a prospective husband for her, she secretely married instead a servant who had long been her lover. The consequence of that allegiance to her own heart was rejection by her family. She and her husband had to leave and made their home in a distant part of India.
It was the custom in that culture for a woman to return to her mother's house when it was time to give birth. She could not make it for her first child. With the second child, she started her trek alone because of her stupid husband's resistance. He soon followed.
He found them deep in the woods as a fierce storm began picking up. As he gathered wood to build a shelter for his child & pregnant wife, he was bitten by a snake & died.
Patacara gave birth alone. She sheltered her newborn & her other child with her body as the storm raged on.
She had to cross a large river to get to her parents' place. She could not cross with both children. She told the toddler to stay put & entered the water carrying the newborn.
She crossed the river, settled the newborn into a nest of leaves, & began to make her way back for her other child. But when she reached mid-river, to her horror, she saw a hawk swoop down, ed up the baby, & began carrying it away as prey. Her only child hearing her cry, thought she was calling him to come to her. He ran into the water towards her, & she watched as he was swept up in the waves and drowned.
--------------Bonnie Myotai Treace---------------
Patacara made her way to her old home, all alone.
Nobody showed any welcome. All showed disdain.
Patacara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wept for you! Patacara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Ignorance is the mother of all suffering."-----------Buddha
Patacara was Enlightened & stayed with Buddha for the next 20 years to help the helpless.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 21, 2005 04:57 PM
Posted by: Nayt at September 21, 2005 05:00 PM
Post a comment
Posted by: Nayt at September 21, 2005 06:59 PM
posted by Deepak Chopra on September 13, 2005 at 11:07 AM
Indians love the concept of seeing creation as a dance between Shiva and Shakti.
It appeals to our sensuous side, and there is a certain maturity to accepting that the cosmos may not be linear or mechanical after all. But beyond the pretty imagery, I don't think many people apply the Leela to their own lives. In what way is the dance of gods and goddesses relevant to you and me?
The practical side of Leela is that besides being a pretty image, it tells us that design is imbedded in chaos. When you are centered in your own dance, this becomes self-evident, because there is no such thing as living randomly. From our center radiates desire, action, process--patterns are formed from the cellular level of the body and the subtle mental levels.
Leela tells us that the basic pattern of life is desire. Knowing that, we can accept our desire nature and not try to repress or judge against it.
Leela is also about the qualities inherent in dance: grace, balance, control. This tells us that life itself has those qualities; therefore, we can aspire to them as individuals.
Leela is centered, because it takes focus to dance. From the intent "I want to dance," the whole body must be organized and set in motion. This tells us that intent and centeredness are linked.
So far, we haven't touched on morality. Leela transcends moral codes, and for many people that's a big problem. They cling to the dualistic world because it rigidly dictates right and wrong (this clinging continues despite the many complaints people utter about being straitjacketed in codes of right and wrong).
But the most basic thing about Leela, as about dance itself, is that play is about delight and freedom. Leela is about the delight and freedom of creation, which somehow we have turned into moral strictures, boundaries, and every kind of restriction. When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief. It's such a burden to approach life as a huge responsibility, to constantly worry about moral codes and social judgments.
Once this initial relief wears off, however, a perplexing phase follows in which play seems impossible to achieve. We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably. You can't throw all of this away and simply start to dance. Not entirely. But you can give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life:
--Ease, lack of struggle
--Appreciation
--Grace
--Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
--Joyousness, innate bliss
--Trust in Nature's organizing power
--Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
--Understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.
I don't think I'm extrapolating or have gotten lost in metaphor. Leela reminds us that when Sat Chit Ananda became manifest, they revealed their nature in a dance.
Comments
deepak - u have encapsulated it so brilliantly. When do we forget that life is actually play ? And that play is far more passionate, more focussed, more real than what we call work.
shekhar
Posted by: shekhar at September 13, 2005 11:21 AM
That's awesome the way you explained that, Deepak. I'm going to have to copy it and continue to read over it. I don't want to miss any of what you are saying, because it feels so right to me.
Thanks.
Love, Kristin
Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 13, 2005 11:27 AM
Dearest Deepak . . . hope all is well. Shekhar and Kristin have expressed the beauty of your words . . .thank you for reminding us about the on going dance for love . . .knowingness and bliss . . .an incredible awakening for our souls! Take care . . .love . . .Laila
Posted by: Laila at September 13, 2005 11:48 AM
Deepak,
That was complete..wholesome and very gratifying.I wanted to immediately begin by exercising 'ease,lack of struggle'as of now.
A naging thought arose though with alacrity which is that how do you explain this play of delight and freedom,this dance of grace, balance and control And sat chit anada manifested ,to a hungry stomach? How do you explain to him that intent and centredness are linked?Why would he care? Is the 'chintan manan 'on these existential truths therefore, a prerogative only for the privileged few like us who can devote half a day to verbalising our spiritual concerns?
Would not such an individual, whose reality is staring him starkly in the face, balk at the idea of terming it as Leela! I do not know whether I have made my point. But I work a lot with the under privileged and inadvertently hypothecate their reactions to a given situation more often than I like. Though here I would like to furnish you this information that there is The vippassana meditation centre which is frequented by me and many of these on a regular basis. despite its severe rules of complete Silence for 10days and eating once a day. So its not as if they have resigned themselves to their fate. Constant endeavour to better their next life , is what they tell me is their guiding force. For me its a humbling and joyous experience to be around these great souls. . 'understanding that your life has a purpose that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos'
Thank You Deepak
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 12:10 PM
I once had the immense privilege of teaching a group of 8 year old girls some basic dance & movement steps for a school presentation. At the end of each session I gave them time for "free dance". I would play rock music, jazz, classical and my favourite part was when I would say, "imagine you're a ballerina". It was during this time that all of the awkwardness, anxiety and tension of learning the required steps for their presentation would drop and they became graceful, beautiful and even sensuous.
I realize that the dance of Leela is metaphoric but I think the physical dance releases something deep, primal, even archetypal in us. I try to get some time to dance every day to remind me of that.
Love, Sheba
Posted by: Sheba at September 13, 2005 12:14 PM
Thanks Deepak. I wonder why it is so hard to let go in spite of knowing the nature of Leela (at least conceptually)?
Posted by: Divya at September 13, 2005 12:34 PM
.
Wow..
Love, passion, and the Law of Least Effort ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 12:41 PM
DEEPAK:
"Once this initial relief wears off, however, a perplexing phase follows in which play seems impossible to achieve. We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably."
I'm feeling that today.
Some one in an earlier post (possibly Leela part one that the ego doesn't like us to participate in activities that would expose it for what it is. Perhaps I'm feeling the "ego blues".
Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:46 PM
Dear Deepak,
Thanks for beautifully explaining Leela and How life can be a Dance.
Love,
Venky
Posted by: Venky at September 13, 2005 12:48 PM
Ease of life? Maybe you don't see reality around you. Life is not about ease --it's about grace towards ourself and others when life is NOT easy.
Posted by: navina at September 13, 2005 12:51 PM
Some one in an earlier post (possibly Leela part one) stated that the ego doesn't like us to participate in activities that would expose it for what it is. Perhaps I'm feeling the "ego blues".
Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:51 PM
NAVINA:
"Life is not about ease --it's about grace towards ourself and others when life is NOT easy."
Could not what you describe been known as Ease of life?
Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:53 PM
Deepak, you have put it very nicely :-)
Posted by: Krish at September 13, 2005 02:38 PM
Dear Deepak, Wow! Talk about Synchrodestiny! Earlier today, I found myself mired down in the chaos of my life. Then I read,
...it tells us that design is imbedded in chaos. When you are centered in your own dance, this becomes self-evident, because there is no such thing as living randomly. From our center radiates desire, action, process--patterns are formed from the cellular level of the body ...
and I "got" it. Thank you. Namaste.
Ann
Posted by: Ann at September 13, 2005 02:48 PM
By reading these postings and seeing how each one has a different perception of these Hindu truths, I feel somewhat relieved myself. That is to say I no longer feel so stuck, rigidly, in my own perception for some reason. I'm glad this happened because now my I view my intellect as being somehow softer and gentler and my intellectual conceptions no longer matter so much. "The guru can but point the way, the path is one for all, the means to reach the goal must vary with the pilgrim." --Buddhist precept My intellectual conceptions are part of the "means" that I use. There is no way I could give them all to someone else and expect them to receive them. This may not make much sense but it does to me.
Posted by: Sherry at September 13, 2005 03:28 PM
What music do they listen to when they dance?
Perhaps trance?
I think if we could somehow get the whole world to stop what they were doing for one day and simply dance, lets call it a Peace Dance, so that we could have one day without conflict it lead to some unity. We could call it the day the whole world danced.
It would not be associated with any religion just expression of the spirit.
If I could I would buy the beer.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 03:32 PM
Deepak,
In part one of the Leela and Dance, you did a great job of defining what Leela is -"Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity."
Both articles are superb. This is what came to my mind about Leela transcending moral codes and our heritage being not moral. I would probably clarify or use different wording. The purpose of Moral code is to prevent human beings from aggressive behaviors and to help achieve some harmony in life in the universe. It does impose restrictions on lives. I agree, while in Leela, one accepts and enjoys all the diverse things in the universe, free from all restrictions. It is not that moral code does not apply to Leela but there is no aggressive intention whatsoever in it and nothing immoral there. (I say this because there were instances of immoral practises in the name of spiritual freedom.)Acceptance of everything in this state probably implies ignoring or forgiving the immoral. Similarly, by "our heritage is not moral" you did not mean that it is immoral but may be some clarification such as "what is right and what is wrong depends on the context, there is no absolute right and absolute wrong" would be helpful.
Posted by: Syamala at September 13, 2005 03:33 PM
I think moral code is a very detrimental thing. It is used to induce shame, guilt, and control.
Sexuality, the life force, is supressed by many "moral codes" this is causing major problems in society.
If we see our self in others there is no need for moral codes. In fact moral code supports the illusion we are separate.
If you want one rule to teach children then teach them to always work to create a good experience for their Self behind every point of view.
There is this concept of the Anti-Christ well I would put moral codes as a product of such a thing, especially since they are so much based on "religion".
Take the Bonobos Tribe for example, they have no moral code and they have a conflict free society.
http://www.newswire.pro/brass_monkey_mystery_linked_to_t.htm
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 05:04 PM
Deepak, thank you for this. You are constantly enlarging my understanding!
Symala, you suggest that Deepak qualify his statement that "our heritage is not moral" with words to indicate that right and wrong are contextual, that "there is no absolute right and absolute wrong."
What happens if we leave out the word "absolute?" "There is no right and there is no wrong." Where does that leave us?
Posted by: Carol at September 13, 2005 05:27 PM
Hello,
This is beautiful Deepak. Learning about Leela, the dance, brings feminine images to my mind, despite the non-dual nature that it is. Maybe in part because the name sounds female to me, or because I am a woman and thus identify with this dance through a feminine perspective. Is Leela considered to be feminine?
Posted by: Kristie at September 13, 2005 05:42 PM
I wonder when was it that we lost contact we the dance of the Universe ? When we came out of the caves, when we started to organize society around religion and politics, when we abandom the barter system for the currency system?
Posted by: Ramon at September 13, 2005 06:04 PM
-Ease, lack of struggle
-Appreciation
-Grace
-Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
-Joyousness, innate bliss
-Trust in Nature's unorganizing power
-Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
-Understanding that your life has purpose (Dharma)that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.
I had an incredibly spiritual? awakening? enlightening? (I'm not sure what you'd choose to call it) weekend. I have felt an awesome shift in awareness and I believe I experienced all of these points Deepak mentions referring to Leela.
Knowledge and communication are the keys for me.
Deepak, after reading this blog and the positive responses you've gotten I'm feeling "buzzed" again. Thanks to everyone for the wonderful comments.
Gemin
Posted by: Gemin at September 13, 2005 06:38 PM
“But the most basic thing … is that play is about delight and freedom. Leela is about the delight and freedom of creation …. When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief ....
“You can't throw all of this away and simply start to dance. Not entirely. But you can give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life:
--Ease, lack of struggle
--Appreciation
--Grace
--Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
--Joyousness, innate bliss
--Trust in Nature's organizing power
--Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
--Understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.
I don't think I'm extrapolating or have gotten lost in metaphor. Leela reminds us that when Sat Chit Ananda became manifest, they revealed their nature in a dance.” ~ Deepak Chopra
I think I just died and went to heaven :-) Thank you Deepak!
Love,
Char
Posted by: char at September 13, 2005 06:50 PM
Whoa, were we on the same wavelength Char?
Gemin
Posted by: Gemin at September 13, 2005 06:57 PM
"But the most basic thing ... is that play is about delight and freedom ... about the delight and freedom of creation.
When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief."
Dear Deepak,
Can you find contentment - when spirituality really clicks in. For I find one 'missing' ingredient to the fullfillment of life's experience, is to be able to reside in contentment.
The dictionary description is not satisfactory - I long to 'discover' contentment in the realm that doesn't come and go with desires fullfilled or thwarted.
Does clear awareness - bring lasting contentment? Or consciousness, is the word I often read here in the posts.
And of course, to see this come alive, in my experience, right here, right now.
It would mean alot to me to able to discuss and illuminate this 'concept'.
Thank you so much.
Love,
~~ K
Posted by: K at September 13, 2005 07:28 PM
I think a good example of the dance and no real need for a moral code, and the true nature of humanity can be found on the road. Whenever I have my doubts about people and society I think about this.
Where I live there is a great amount of traffic as I am sure there is in most places. It is true we have traffic lights yet these would not be enough to allow traffic to flow. There are many places were there are not traffic lights. There is nothing to orchestrate the merging of cars into the flow.
There are no laws saying that we must stop and let people out into the flow. There are no laws or rules saying we must make a space so that another can merge into the flow.
Yet people do.
People, who are simply strangers, will stop and let you out into traffic in front of them. They will make a space so you can squeeze into the flow.
I have seen an onramps where it was bumper to bumper and each car will let one car from the ramp into the flow like a perfect dance. Yet there is no written rule. There is no discrimination it does not matter your sex or color or ethnic origin.
It seems that there is something to be said by these phenomena.
Of course there are the exceptions, and 98% of the time when someone cuts me off or is driving very aggressively I say to myself….
Ah I must be late to get somewhere, as I smile and watch myself ahead weave to and fro.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 08:10 PM
Deepak, you say:
"We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably."
“And your solution is:
“…..give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life: Ease, lack of struggle, appreciation, grace, freedom, particularly the free flow of desire, joyousness, innate bliss, trust in nature's organizing power, knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance, understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.”
Your solution is a way AROUND the problem, after accepting the problem as an inexorable force.
But there is a much better way. It comes NOT from accepting the problem as unstoppable, and NOT on how to get around the problem – but from inquiring into what is causing the problem in the first place.
What causes the problem of being “full of conditioned responses” is the conditioning itself. Conditioning itself is not to be found at the same level as responses. It is found one level deeper than the level of attitudes and intentions; two levels behind the operating level of responses, actions and behaviors. It is found in our conceptual domain.
Conditioning is made up of conceptual objects, such as memories, knowledge and assumptions that were uploaded into us when we were growing up, when we were not in a position to evaluate and choose the conditioning that was being pumped into us. And duality, being a conceptual phenomenon, is also part of the conditioned content.
So instead of considering conditioned responses and the machinery of duality to be unstoppable, we should follow what causes it - to the point BEFORE the machinery of duality begins to roll, by PREVENTING it from starting to roll in the first place.
This is done by developing the serious habit and eventually, expertise, of focusing on and scanning the content of one’s conditioning, evaluating and editing and correcting one’s conditioning, so that the falseness of granularity, the falseness of duality, and the falseness of the ego are all discovered and purged from one’s conceptual system.
Yes, Deepak, life can indeed be a dance.
But dance should not be regarded as a strategy or a solution to the intractable problems of conditioning, duality, and ego.
Dance is not a means around the effects of conditioning, it is the ever increasing manifestation of the dismantling of conditioning.
Dance should be enjoyed freely as the expression of the increasing spontaneity that comes from our liberation from conditioning, duality and ego, which allows us to move ever more with the grace and beauty of our original being – as consciousness and spirit.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 13, 2005 09:21 PM
Deepak and other peaceful ones,
What about the "dancer with no beat"-- the toe cruncher or the stiff swaying one? Are these individual expressions of our differences or is this the opposite that exists and needs to exist to make the movements flow.
Are the apprehensions felt in the dance a symbol for the insecurities we hold in living..?
Dancing for many brings up many issues and for some they just dance without a care in the world. Their hearts are at peace and free.
"Move with the vibrations from eternal sounds..
Allowing the music exalted from your soul to run free in the cosmos of eternity. The sweet steps and movements from left to right shall provide an expression of your light...."
Peace and love,
Suzanne
Posted by: suzanne at September 13, 2005 09:33 PM
Thought()
Input = thought
Is this a fear based thought?
If yes then discard
end if
Else
Is this a Love based thought
If yes then store or process
end if
Else > is this a rational thought?
If yes then maintain or store for analysis
Else Discard
Next thought
Loop Until Sleep = Yes
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 10:05 PM
Ravi,
That was BRILLIANT.. 'Dance is not a means around the effects of conditioning it is the ever increasing manifestation of the dismantling of conditioning.'
I read somewhere that we all grow up with the weight of history on us. Our ancestors dwell in the attics of our brains as they do in the spiralling chains of knowledge hidden in every cell of our bodies. The thinking man though under a divine curse will liberate himself through knowledge and awareness and will penetrate the veil of illusion.
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 10:39 PM
It's beautiful, both Leela and your post.
It's also the reason I answered the way I did on the "cancer" post.
"...However, because I have a certain amount of faith that this whole physical experience is "all good", ultimately I love the entire process...
In the end, the very end, I know that my spirit will appreciate the entire story as a whole no matter how it actually unfolds."
Posted by: Melanie at September 13, 2005 11:54 PM
It's beautiful, both Leela and your post.
It's also the reason I answered the way I did on the "cancer" post.
"...However, because I have a certain amount of faith that this whole physical experience is "all good", ultimately I love the entire process...
In the end, the very end, I know that my spirit will appreciate the entire story as a whole no matter how it actually unfolds."
Posted by: Melanie at September 13, 2005 11:54 PM
Leela is Prakriti..
Leela is celebrating life..
Lee'la is 'la affaire'..
Leela is 'Joy de vivre'..
Leela is 'just-being-you'!
Posted by: Peter Pan at September 14, 2005 01:42 AM
;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 02:21 AM
P. Pan: Sometimes we "forget" who we are--children playing (or Leela-ing), capable of "flying" anywhere at anytime--except when we use our unlimited powers of imagination--to forget!
Sooo....Peter--thinking of you! Always, and in All-Ways, My Unconditional Love to You--T. Bell
Posted by: David at September 14, 2005 02:22 AM
I think Peter Pan would like to dance..the English wals? Neverland or Disneyworld?
On the soul´s journey on the path to love,
or was it god or onconditional love?
synchrodestiny or tinkerbell is a nice companion,
Flying from one christmas to another,
in a space-time continuum,
But where´s Jane? with an applepie?
in any case,
A wild, non-stop freeweeling adventure!
http://livindreamswithpassion2.blogspot.com/
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 03:43 AM
http://badboyzinpoland.blogspot.com/
Love, Passion! and a smile ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 03:49 AM
An observation:
The result of any of Richard's tests will be YES or NO depending upon what is already in the memory.
What is fear-based to one may not be fear-based to another, and so on.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 05:38 AM
Deepak Ji
You express the inexpressible like only you can. I read your words today as bursts of lightness and joy and then for a long while I just sit and marvel at how you capture the essence and also manage to embellish it. Truly, truly words are your dance.
And then your words danced their way to the immortal words of two others. Suddenly I remembered Kalidasa's epic poem Kumarsambhava, the erotic, lyrical masterpiece of the great dance of ecstacy between Shiva and Parvati(Shakti). And of course the inimitable Rumi on the Leela of dance;
“Dance, when you’re broken open.
Dance, if you’ve torn the bandage off.
Dance in the middle of the fighting.
Dance in your blood.
Dance when you are perfectly free.”
Thank You for a day filled with so much resonance
Love
Jasjit
Posted by: Jasjit at September 14, 2005 06:02 AM
Carol ,
By 'absolute' I guess I was just trying to emphasize that something cannot be labeled right or wrong without looking at the context. There is a famous story of a Satyavaadi meaning truth speaker. Satyavaadi practised the principle -do not lie. He never lied in his life. One day, when he was doing his meditation with closed eyes, he heard running foot steps and openning his eyes saw a scared man running for his life. The man went behind a bush and hid himself. He closed his again and went back to meditation. After a few minutes, he again heard thumping foot steps. On opening his eyes, he saw some armed men apparently in search of the man running away from them. When they saw Satyavaadi, they stopped and asked him whether he saw anybody pass by him, if so, whether he knew where he is because they want to catch him. It was clear to Satyavadi that the armed men would harm the scared man hiding behind the bush, if they find him. Satyavaadi, who would never fail in his principle of telling truth pointed the bush. The men then caught the man and killed him. After sometime, Satyavadi died and was taken to hell instead of to heaven. He asked Yama, the god of death, " I always spoke truth and never told a lie in my life, why didn't you send me to heaven?". Yama replied " You spoke truth alright. But you showed the robbers where the scared man hid. You could have saved his life by not telling truth. You did not have compassion. That is why you deserve punishment but not heaven. The implication is: compassion is right in this case but not telling truth which led to the killing
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 06:24 AM
Thanks for the story Syamala. It gets your point across very well. Even though our ethics are context-based, the fear of literal interpretation was always present even in our society.
I think people tend to mix up various levels of abstraction while discussing these matters. At the ultimate Shiva/Shakti level there is no duality or notion of morality. But at the level of our mundane lives we do need to abide by codes of conduct and a sense of right and wrong.
Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 06:31 AM
Thanks, Syamala and Divya. I agree completely, thanks for expressing this so well.
Posted by: Carol at September 14, 2005 08:27 AM
Actually Shakti is the phenomenon of dance emerging from the dancer -Shiva.
Both are inseparable. The static aspect of Shakti is Shiva and the dynamic aspect of Shiva is shakti.
The ardhanarishwer - Shiva as half-male, half-female.
This is more or less same as the brahma and maya of Vedanta or purusha and prakriti of Yoga.
The inactive, static Shiva is like the eye of a storm - void, empty, devoid of any activity. Nishkriya.
But on the locus and foundation of this empty eye the entire phenomenon of storm is created.
So why the heck universe is created out of the shiva-shakti - just for the purpose of Leela. And leela in turn is purposeless !
However, at the mundane level, like deepak said - We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably.
Notwithstanding, mixing up of various levels of abstraction is not only accepted but encouraged in tantra bcs tantra disdains being straitjacketed in codes of right and wrong
Posted by: Kailash Khandelwal at September 14, 2005 09:07 AM
Kaveetaa,
There is no divine curse. Only a divine blessing. The forms and structures the divine generated were designed to afford the divine less boredom and more excitement.
Bondage is an unavoidable and necessary step in evolution for the One Intelligence (divine, if you like) to rise to the more complex levels of being, and thus, to the higher delight of managing One's own Body, the physical universe - as an interdependent multividual - several billions strong.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 09:22 AM
G,
I am stupid 50% of the time.(You are more intelligent, but that means you are still stupid 49.99% of the time.)
Last time I told you about my Enlightenment. That's the intelligent half. After the two hours in the park, I got a parking ticket. That's the stupid half.
I am obsessed with STUPIDITY all my life.
BUDDHA says,"STUPIDITY is the mother of all suffering."
How true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have studied all cultures on STUPIDITY.
In China, it is manifestated in its marshal arts. The first master created 10 perfect forms that were the best of the best. He taught his son 9 of them so that he was still the father & the best. The son taught his son 8 of the 9. By the tenth generation, there was only one form left.............. The perpetuity of ignorance.
In India, the saint found the truth. When he taught his disciples he added some myth onto it & his disciples did the same, & after the 10th generation, it's all myth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............................The perpetuity of ignorance.
In the West, they simply preach STUPIDITY.
There is this stupid place called Heaven. There is this stupid guy called God. If you are so stupid as to believe in them, you will end up in Heaven & with God.
51% of the people believe in IT.
Einstein said time & stupidity are the two infinite things on earth.
That means suffering is with us for ever.
The answer: keep it simple, you stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 14, 2005 10:18 AM
DEAREST DEEPAK,
I LEARNED ONE WORD LONG TIME AGO AND CHANGED MY LIFE AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT I TOLD THEM ABOUT IT. "DEDENSELESSNESS"
I AM PERSIAN AND HAVE A VOICE THAT SO MANY PEOPLES TIMES AND TIMES TOLD ME THAT IS VERY SOOTHING..I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE IT IN ONE OF YOUR CD... I LOVE RUMI AND HAVE ALL HIS POEMS AND EVERY THURSDAY NIGHT AT MY HOUSE IN HOUSTON TEXAS HAVE PRAYING AND MEDITATING AND ALWAYS PLAY YOUR CD. I SAW YOU LAST NIGHT AT UNITY CHURCH WAS WOUNDERFUL.LOVE DR. LILLIE TAAT
Posted by: LILLIE TAAT at September 14, 2005 10:24 AM
Divya,
I agree literal interpretation of morals and ethics is and was present in all soceties. It is because our selfishness ignores the guidance from that compassionate conscience (or consciousness) deep down which precisely knows what is right in any given context. We tend to interpret the code to suit our convenience.
I also agree that it is hard to pick suitable language to describe these abstract concepts that we are discussing and that is why the need for clarification to prevent conveying of unintended meaning.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 11:02 AM
More on trying to understand what is meant by "Leela transcends moral codes". There is nothing immoral going on in Leela and therefore there is no need for checking for moral codes there. I guess I do not understand why even talk about moral code in the context of Leela. To say that moral codes are causing a lot of problems in life and those problems do not exist in Leela because it is free of moral code is misleading. The suggestion that supression of sexuality by many moral codes is causing major problems in society is an example. It may be true. But freedom of sexuality creates problems as well if not more. We know promiscuity spreads AIDS. A pedophile would argue that he is doing nothing wrong. We heard about Rajnish, who called himself Bhagavan and Yogi,led a movement of sexual freedom and encouraged promiscuity among his followers. He certainly does not represent any Indian spiritual tradition, and for that matter any spiritual tradition. Such behaviors are not part of Leela.
Similarly, when Deepak says "Leela tells us that the basic pattern of life is desire. Knowing that, we can accept our desire nature and not try to repress or judge against it", we should not interpret it to condone our greed and lust thinking that we are in the state of Leela.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 12:05 PM
Actually, Lord Sri Krishna's life was said to be full of Leela. He was the lover of all Gpoikas. Many Indians do think that he was a play boy. I for one do not think that he was a play boy in the literal sense of the word but that his relationship with Gpoikas is symbolically carries a certain spiritual meaning.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 12:27 PM
Syamala - the phrase one generally hears is that "all this creation is god's leela". This refers to all of creation, including the dewdrops and rainbows on one hand and earthquakes and hurricanes on the other. This has its counterpart in human activity too, with compassion and heroism on one side and rage and spite on the other. Thus when they say leela transceds morals, I understand it to mean that this creation is what it is - just a play - it is not about being good or bad but more just a constant cause and effect cycle. However, at the human level, in order to go through life safely and soundly we need to develop some morals otherwise we'd go nuts.
Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 01:30 PM
If you remove all human beings on earth, then who decides what is moral or immoral?
The dewdrops and the rainbows would still be there, so would be earthquakes and hurricanes. All the processes of nature would still flow but without human distinctions of one being bad and other good.
Leela is the all-encompassing process of creation (sans mind). It is neither moral nor immoral.
Mind creates all the distinctions, good bad, ugly, moral, immoral, even the notion of cause and effect!
I am reminded of UG when he said - All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind , otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum.
Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!
Posted by: Kailash Khandelwal at September 14, 2005 02:52 PM
Ravi,
You said it very well "Dance should be enjoyed freely as the expression of the increasing spontaneity that comes from our liberation from conditioning, duality and ego, which allows us to move ever more with the grace and beauty of our original being – as consciousness and spirit." Life when free from ego is dance.
Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 06:49 PM
Tyan quoted the Buddha: "STUPIDITY is the mother of all suffering"
Yes, Tyan, but bad conditioning is the mother of stupidity.
We may not be able to address stupidity. But you are wrong about suffering having to be with us for ever.
This is because we can address and correct conditioning.
Instead of wasting your time and ours preaching there is nothing we can do about suffering, let's find more and better ways for us to focus on our conditioning, and to clean it up.
As our conditioning gets cleansed of errors and contradictions, our stupidity should decrease.
And as our stupidity decreases, so will our suffering. And that's when we dance.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 07:47 PM
Kailash says:
"Mind creates all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral even the notion of cause and effect"
We seem to be mixing the false with the true here.
First of all, mind is a useless term, because it means different things to everyone who reads it, and therefore compounds confusion.
I suggest you start trusting your feelings from today. They may not be very acccurate at this time, given that you have been blunting their impact in your life.
However, as your conditioning gets gradually cleaned up from the scrutiny of your own consciousnes, the accuracy of your feelings will improve, and you will be able to navigate ever more accurately toward the most that you can be.
It is more useful to refer to the content of mind. The content of mind is conceptual, with memories, assumptions and imaginations.
Unfortunately, the most important conceptual content of our mind are our foundational convictions, such as our sense of self, and how the self relates to spirit, mind, matter, others, other creatures, and the rest of nature.
Virtually all of these convictions are conditioned into us early in life, first through our parents, and then through our teachers, long before we are aware that this uploading is taking place.
So the foundation of the content of our mind, our core identity assumptions, are conditioned into us.
So what you say about "all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral" might be true, because this stuff is conditioned into us.
But this is definitely not true of "cause and effect". This we can experience directly. We all use electricity, computers, networks, phones, cars, elevators, trains, and even planes. We take these things for granted, as being entirely reliable, because the knowledge on which they are constructed is based on cause and effect. Highly reliable cause and effect.
Take a more immediate example. These words are being written as an effect to the cause of your having written that earlier post from which I quoted you. If you hadn't written that post, these words wouldn't have been here.
So please don't repeat what someone else says simply because you respect him. Consider what is true or false from your own direct experience, and that is the beginning of correcting your conditioning.
When your experience contradicts your beliefs, that's when your beliefs have to be deleted and replaced with your truth.
Let's now get to another passage from your post. You quote UG:
"All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind , otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum.
Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!"
Yes, as we saw above, the conceptual content needs to be investigated. But not in the sense UG meant. The UG quote here refers to emotional input.
The feelings evoked by the sensory input of the barking of a dog and the 5th symphony are emotional responses, not mental responses. Feeling is a function of consciousness, not of the content of mind.
(For those who are still conditioned to regard themselves as their bodies, have replaced their true self, consciousness, with the Ego. And the Ego can distort our feelings. But even then, we can still distinguish coherence from meaninglessness, a word from a sound, music from noise.
Why should we devalue the only compass we have on this treacherous landscape of this dimension? If we stop trusting our feelings about the meaning or absence of it, we are truly lost, for then we would not be able to distinguish what can hurt or destroy us from what can heal or enhance us.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 08:20 PM
Kailash and others: Please ignore my preceding post to Kailash because the sequence of what I wrote somehow got garbled when I posted it to the blog. Here follows the correct sequence of my post to him:
----------------------------
Kailash says:
"Mind creates all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral even the notion of cause and effect"
We seem to be mixing the false with the true here.
First of all, mind is a useless term, because it means different things to everyone who reads it, and therefore compounds confusion.
It is more useful to refer to the content of mind. The content of mind is conceptual, with memories, assumptions and imaginations.
Unfortunately, the most important conceptual content of our mind are our foundational convictions, such as our sense of self, and how the self relates to spirit, mind, matter, others, other creatures, and the rest of nature.
Virtually all of these convictions are conditioned into us early in life, first through our parents, and then through our teachers, long before we are aware that this uploading is taking place.
So the foundation of the content of our mind, our core identity assumptions, are conditioned into us.
So what you say about "all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral" might be true, because this stuff is conditioned into us.
But this is definitely not true of "cause and effect". This we can experience directly. We all use electricity, computers, networks, phones, cars, elevators, trains, and even planes. We take these things for granted, as being entirely reliable, because the knowledge on which they are constructed is based on cause and effect. Highly reliable cause and effect.
Take a more immediate example. These words are being written as an effect to the cause of your having written that earlier post from which I quoted you. If you hadn't written that post, these words wouldn't have been here.
So please don't repeat what someone else says simply because you respect him. Consider what is true or false from your own direct experience, and that is the beginning of correcting your conditioning.
When your experience contradicts your beliefs, that's when your beliefs have to be deleted and replaced with your truth.
Let's now get to another passage from your post. You quote UG:
"All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind, otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum. Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!"
Yes, as we saw above, the conceptual content needs to be investigated. But not in the sense UG meant. The UG quote here doesn’t refer to a conceptual response. It refers to the emotional response.
The feelings evoked by the sensory input of the barking of a dog and the 5th symphony are emotional responses, not mental responses. Feeling is a function of consciousness, not of mind or its contents.
(Those who are still conditioned to regard themselves as their bodies, and have therefore replaced their true self, consciousness, with the Ego. The Ego can certainly distort our feelings. But even then, we can still distinguish coherence from meaninglessness, a word from a sound, music from noise. That is where consciousness is so different from mind.
Why should we devalue the only compass we have on this treacherous landscape of this worldly dimension? If we stop trusting our feelings about the meaning or absence of it, we are truly lost, for then we would not be able to distinguish what can hurt or destroy us from what can heal or enhance us.
Kailash, I suggest you start trusting your feelings from today. They may not be very acccurate at this time, assuming from your post that you have been blunting their impact in your life.
However, as your conditioning gets gradually cleansed by the scrutiny of your consciousness, you will become more alert to your feelings, the accuracy of your feelings will improve, and you will be able to navigate ever more accurately toward the most that you can be.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 08:33 PM
Well said Ravi. We seriously need more down-to-earth souls on this blog.
Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 09:26 PM
You can't teach an old spinster new tricks, as the saying goes.
I have spent more than 40 years with the Zen Buddhist camp. And finally I got my Enlightenment & my final payout was a parking ticket!!!
After that experience, I seem to have acquired a brand new pespective in life. Suffering is no suffering any more. Although I still have CML, still having blood test every week, bone marrow test every 3 months, & doubling my Gleevec dosage......& all the guys I try to pick up in the street.........
My favourite line,"Have you made love to a 50 year old spinster before?" Then I grinned & said, "Me neither!!!!", 10 seconds later.
I love to watch men's expression in their faces following that.
As a revenge for all the muslim women in this world!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And there was this Katrina hurricane(& they blame it all on wemen again!!!). I just sent in my Red Cross donation, less the parking ticket, of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would a traffic officer give a parking ticket to a chronically ill cancer patient??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Everyone has an answer !!!!!!
Conditioning!!!!!!!!
You can't condition me any more. You wise guy!!
You gurus!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 15, 2005 04:52 AM
Tyan,
You said, "In the West, they simply preach STUPIDITY. There is this stupid place called Heaven. There is this stupid guy called God. If you are so stupid as to believe in them, you will end up in Heaven & with God."
This is not indicative of the west and the west is actually just like ever other culture opposed to God and His ways.
You only say these things about God and Heaven that because you don't believe God to be supremely valuable. You say it is stupid because you believe that ending suffering is supremely valuable. The ultimate ends in your life seems to me to end suffering.
To me the scriptures are clear that their are forms of sufferings are there to help us grow in the faith. Consider the words of Peter, Jesus' well known disciple.
1 Peter 1:3-9
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
To me the Glory of God and His greatness is supremely valuable above the desire to end my own suffering. Obviously we are to work to end needless suffering, but the ultimate ends in my life is God and His greatness.
Posted by: Shawn Lynes at September 15, 2005 06:51 AM
Dear Deepak:
Your post warmed me all over to paraphrase a verse from an old pop song. On a serious note, I want to thank you for trying to make all of us remember--life and death (Kali/Shiva)what an incredible dance.
Sura
Posted by: sura at September 15, 2005 06:50 PM
Shawn Lynes,
GOD to me is timeless, plural, almighty, omnipotent, omnipresent....more than any imagination of mankind.
Some wise man says, "GOD give us life, & compassion & love. The devil gives us religions."
All religions demean GOD because out of their STUPIDITY, they think they can represent & speak for GOD.
According to Mr. Woodwards, little bush talked to his Father up in Heaven & not to his earthly father who was also the President of America before he started the war in Iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you imagine this in America in the 20th Century?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Mr. Chopra didn't speak against it.
Nobody did.
Thus all the suffering!!!!
Little bush promise you everything. Only GOD can deliver.
Posted by: Tyan at September 16, 2005 08:44 PM
I think of Asia as the grandparents (whose wisdom is often neglected). I think of Europe and the MidEast as the parents and in-laws,(always feuding among themselves.) I think of America as the rebellious teenager, lacking manners, wanting freedom, and not knowing how to get it. America's political policys in the world have been shameful...the Shah of Iran, leaving our Vietnamese friends, bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There was a movie called "The Ugly American" which spoke to this. So it is not so much the rest of the world we have to watch out for, it is us. In school we learned to read and write. Now we have to read and write. Speaking to the cultural education into which one has been born, (maybe that was another site), but as Ram Dass exclaimed, "I've been had!".
Posted by: Sherry at September 18, 2005 08:16 AM
Sherry: Ditto about your human analogies regarding the various "ages" of different cultures and locations.
Isn't Ram Dass sooo....fun and cool! Dave
Posted by: David at September 18, 2005 09:23 AM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The life of Patacara,
a woman who lived in India at the time of the Buddha, a real strong, young, & beautiful woman.
(dedicated to the most privileged & the most intelligent!)
[Time 550 B.C.] When her parents picked out a prospective husband for her, she secretely married instead a servant who had long been her lover. The consequence of that allegiance to her own heart was rejection by her family. She and her husband had to leave and made their home in a distant part of India.
It was the custom in that culture for a woman to return to her mother's house when it was time to give birth. She could not make it for her first child. With the second child, she started her trek alone because of her stupid husband's resistance. He soon followed.
He found them deep in the woods as a fierce storm began picking up. As he gathered wood to build a shelter for his child & pregnant wife, he was bitten by a snake & died.
Patacara gave birth alone. She sheltered her newborn & her other child with her body as the storm raged on.
She had to cross a large river to get to her parents' place. She could not cross with both children. She told the toddler to stay put & entered the water carrying the newborn.
She crossed the river, settled the newborn into a nest of leaves, & began to make her way back for her other child. But when she reached mid-river, to her horror, she saw a hawk swoop down, ed up the baby, & began carrying it away as prey. Her only child hearing her cry, thought she was calling him to come to her. He ran into the water towards her, & she watched as he was swept up in the waves and drowned.
--------------Bonnie Myotai Treace---------------
Patacara made her way to her old home, all alone.
Nobody showed any welcome. All showed disdain.
Patacara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wept for you! Patacara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Ignorance is the mother of all suffering."-----------Buddha
Patacara was Enlightened & stayed with Buddha for the next 20 years to help the helpless.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 21, 2005 04:57 PM
Posted by: Nayt at September 21, 2005 05:00 PM
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