http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/09/leela_the_dance.html
LEELA, THE DANCE OF CREATION
posted by Deepak Chopra on September 12, 2005 at 12:45 PM
Divya has asked an interesting question about the relationship between Leela, the creative play of the cosmos, and design, the structure of the cosmos.
She uses the phrase "Leela versus design" the same way that cosmologists today would say "chaos versus order." I wonder if this opposition is really accurate.
Forms are always the end-product of a process, and over time every form is dissolved into another process. Creation and destruction are two aspects of the same ongoing flow. So far, we aren't in deep water, but the problem is that any duality is untrue to the ultimate Advaita, or non-dual view that lies at the heart of Vedanta. Since the human mind seems constructed along dualistic lines, its struggle to understand non-duality runs against the grain. Therefore, it is much simpler and feels more natural to seize one side of a dualistic argument and defend it even though every culture has the concept of Oneness, Allah, Brahman, Yahwah, the Absolute--an all-encompassing divine force.
Living your own life depends on duality. It's hard not to think in terms of opposites when everything is a choice, when the brain is constantly accepting and rejecting, when judging between right and wrong is so prevalent. India is extremely fortunate to have a non-dual legacy, because for all intents and purposes every other world religion has abandoned it.
As Divya points out, our heritage isn't moral, in the sense that God dictates a strict line between the holy and the unholy. There is no purpose in the universe the way Judgment Day implies a purpose to Christians. Nor is there even a spiritual purpose in a person's life, in the sense that obeying God's commands and hoping to win heaven instead of hell brings purpose to Christians, Muslims, and other faiths.
What we have instead is Leela, the play of creation. Which on the surface seems like an empty, aimless concept. After all, every society vastly prefers work to play. Yet in what way is dancing without purpose? To exhibit grace and beauty is a purpose. So is holding your balance while moving. So is organizing your limbs with control and skill. So is keeping centered and focused on what you are doing.
If you can accept that a dance has purpose, then Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity. Leela isn't doing a brainless seductive dance. There is balance, organization, centeredness, etc. Which is what the word "design" implies once we take it beyond the simplistic notion of a tinkering God who sits in a workshop making the universe the way a cobbler makes shoes.
I'd like to take this up against in a later post.
Comments
beautifully stated, Deepak...
and as a dance...you may take both/or either steps in duality recognizing that This is One Dance...love, Carolyn
Posted by: carolyn_wind at September 12, 2005 01:03 PM
Dear Deepak,
Is it possible - that the 'dance' really has no inherent 'purpose'. All meanings are relative to what an individual, and groups - assign.
Is being, without doing, the 'highest' form to attain?
And 'once there' - do we not unite into the One?
~~ K
Posted by: K at September 12, 2005 01:26 PM
Deepak,
Understanding this is what leads to an end of all the worlds conflict. What you wrote contains essential insight and it has a very positive effect, it is the best thing I read today.
The infinite player is all about playing for the fun of playing, and although they may engage a finite game they never forget that the winner and loser are one and the same.
~Infinite Play The Movie
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 02:28 PM
Dear Deepak,
Thank you for taking up this fascinating topic. The concept of Leela flashed into my mind as I was mulling over your recent articles on ID. However, I did not mean to pitch Chaos vs. Order, but rather Randomness vs. Purpose.
The concept of Design, specially adorned with an adjective such as intelligent, cannot explain the misery and ugliness in the world. The concept of Leela does not run into any such problems. Moreover, the concept of Design is absent from all Asian thought - Japanese, Chinese, and of course, all of the Indic traditions, as well as from the Native American and African traditions.
Can we see Leela as purpose? Or can we just make the most of this Leela, rejoice in it, dance along with it? Or else stew in it, be driven to madness by it, grovel in misery?
Regards,
Divya
Posted by: Divya at September 12, 2005 02:30 PM
Dear Deepak,
Is it possible that there is this cosmic dance just for its own sake instead of having any purpose behind this cosmic play/drama/dance
Love,
Venky
Posted by: Venky at September 12, 2005 02:46 PM
Hi Deepak,
Leela's purpose is the joy of awakening - and also the joy of the dance. When we let go of our egos illusion of self importance and quit taking ourselves and life so seriously, then we begin to appreciate the delicious flavors and sensations inherent in the dancing itself - as well as the ecstacy of awakening to our True Nature.
For me, what often interferes with the enjoyment of this dance is fear (of death, of the truth that OMG I'm not all that important!)...
Okay, so there are a few other things that interfere too, but if I could just get over that klesha I'd be home free - and dancing to my seductive hearts content, just for the pure joy of it.
Love, Kristin
Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 12, 2005 03:12 PM
And of course, since this is after all a partnered dance, we have to come to an understanding about who is best at taking the lead, don't we?
Posted by: Doug at September 12, 2005 03:48 PM
Deepak says:
"Since the human mind seems constructed along dualistic lines, its struggle to understand non-duality runs against the grain."
I am glad you said "seems". We should not encourage the delusion that dualism is intrinsic to our minds. This discourages even the attempt to overcome dualism, which is the first and the last error that every one of us must learn to correct and surpass.
Indeed, the human mind is NOT constructed along dualistic lines. It is not a constructed thing. It is an uploaded thing at all. It is a rather a programmed thing.
Our minds are determined by our conceptual content. And its conceptual content is uploaded into us from early childhood.
When the conceptual domain first emerged among us, we were not aware of it. We did not know it was mediating between us and our experiences. So we were not aware that it was taking the form of our sensory experiences, which were based on distinctions (boundaries) between what we noticed and what we didn't.
So the granular nature of our sense experiences were replicated in their copies as conceptual units (memories). And the granular nature of our conceptual content became the filter through which we interpreted everything we experienced.
Indeed, whereas distinctions at the sensory level were only appearances, the counterparts of these distinctions in their conceptual replication became absolute, projecting a granular and scattered model of a reality, that despite the appearace of sensory distinctions, were ultimately a seamless and fluid unity.
Those who learn to withdraw the focus of their attention from the sensory world toward the conceptual filter that interprets it for us, can begin the process of identifying our conceptual errors and contradictions, and gradually resolve them.
This is what everyone must know, we can overcome the appearance of duality in our mind, by correcting the problem where it is situated, in the conceptual content in our minds.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 03:51 PM
GOD(plural, the almighty, the omnipotent, the omnipresent, timeless...)give us life so that we can enjoy it, no more & no less.
Chaos Theory has it that a butterfly flapping its wings in Central Park in New York can cause a tornado in South Africa.
I sneezed at 6.00 a.m. on Saturday, June 11, 2005 in Canada and since then California has had four earthquakes.
GOD also create tha ant colonies, the honey-bee making honey, the million species of moths, cancerous cells, virus..........................,the Law of Cause & Effect.
The Law of Cause & Effect controls every single minute of our lives; we cannot live apart from it.
Every little part of our lives, even our mental activities of perception, emotion, and volution, play out according to the Law of Cause and Effect.
Therefore, if we seek a joyous life, we should sow good seeds. Then we will taste the sweetness of our good fruit.
There is nothing in this world that can escape the Law of Cause & Effect. Once unwholesome karms is done, a bad effect will surely follow (for example, if you fart, it stinks!). If we stop creating bad karma and keep producing good karma, we will be free from suffering one day and we will attain true joy.
Only IGNORANCE can prevent us from escaping suffering.
The only Enlightenment is through Ultimate Wisdom.
A good dancer can bring inspiration to millions & save thousands from taking their own lives that GOD give them.
GOD's will is thus not done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 12, 2005 03:58 PM
.
wow..
Some Quotes
"The feet may learn the steps, but only the spirit can dance"
"Dance isn't a form it's a way of life"
"Dancers are the athletes of God", Albert Einstein
"We dance for laughter, we dance for tears, we dance for madness, we dance for fears, we dance for hopes, we dance for screams, we are the dancers, we create the dreams"
"To dance is to be out of yourself. Larger, more beautiful, more powerful. This is power, it is glory on earth and it is yours for the taking", Agnes De Mille
"If dancing were any easier it would be called football"
"Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another"
"I don't have an attitude, I'm just REALLY good!", Dance Caravan
"The people who do not dance are the dead", Jerry Rose, Dance Caravan
"Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but she did it backwards and in high heels"
"You know you're dancing when tears of pain and happiness blend in with your sweat"
"Dance is the hidden language of the soul and the body", Martha Graham
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance"
"We do not always dance because we are happy, But we dance and cannot help but become happy"
"Someone need not be perfect to be a great dancer - feeling a soul is more important than what the body can do", Marcia Haydée, Dance Magazine
"Dancers offer us our only earthly chance to catch a glimpse of the angelic host"
"Work like you don't need the money LOVE like you've never been hurt DANCE like there's no body watching!"
Love, Passion! and a dance...
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 12, 2005 04:04 PM
“What we have instead is Leela, the play of creation. … Yet in what way is dancing without purpose? To exhibit grace and beauty is a purpose…
If you can accept that a dance has purpose, then Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity. …” ~ Deepak Chopra
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to dance, so this was very beautiful to read. Many, many years ago, I use to get asked to participate in dance contests, but never did, as I so enjoy the very act of dancing and not the competition … disappointed a lot of partners … oh, well. I still love to dance, but it is more private now.
Love,
Char
Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 04:19 PM
K asks:
"Is being, without doing, the 'highest' form to attain?
" And 'once there' - do we not unite into the One?"
We are, every last one of us, already in our highest form, all one and the selfsame being.
So there is nothing to attain, but the removal of the conceptually projected delusion that we are all discrete and separate entities.
And once "here", we merely recognize that oneself and all others were already One.
Attainment implies a journey (distance and delay) between oneself and a desired state.
This very act of deferring the attainment of one's true state perpetuates our bondage in duality, if only because the highest we can attain was already always here. We only thought we were not.
So, instead of seeking and pursuing, consider purging what is keeping us from recognizing this.
The model of cleaning up a fliter that is already here is very different from pursuing what is also already here as thought it were not here. The latter only worsens the problem by deferring what cannot be deferred, if only because it was already always here.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 04:36 PM
"We are, every last one of us, already in our highest form, all one and the selfsame being.
So there is nothing to attain, but the removal of the conceptually projected delusion that we are all discrete and separate entities.
And once "here", we merely recognize that oneself and all others were already One."
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal
How shocking to realize that we always have been This...love, Carolyn
Posted by: carolyn_wind at September 12, 2005 04:52 PM
Does a chick come first or an egg come first?
Unanswerable!!
At best, an exercise in futility!
At worst, a fool's worry that the sky is going to fall tomorrow.
Science is a systematic study of the material world. Faith is a great leap forward from nothing to reality.
Let us keep our faith & keep up with our scientific evolution at the same time.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Humankind exists until everything is annihilated!!!!
Yin & Yang are the two ends of the continuum. The end of one is the beginning of the other.
Absolute silence is the loudest sound on earth.
Complete stillness is the ultimate movement that can possibly exist.
Perfect rationality is complete insanity.
The ultimate answer is GOD.
And GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind.
New discoveries, like web bloggers, real life, on-line communication...are our only salvation.
Science is our solution.
GOD(faith) is our answer!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 12, 2005 04:53 PM
Deepak,
Just an FYI The fossils post does not come up and stay up, not sure if anyone else is experiencing this...
Joanie
Posted by: Joanie at September 12, 2005 04:57 PM
Hi Ravi,
Thanks for your post. It prompts another queston(s)!
It does 'seem' life is a progression - certainly this is apparent in form, as one ages
This is apparent in nature as well.
Are we 'seduced' by the dance, by duality. Is the 'purpose' of human life to see, touch, feel, communicate? (control) While the 'soul' sleeps in the form, and awaits - what?
Thanks for sharing!
~~ K
Posted by: K at September 12, 2005 05:30 PM
As James Joyce might have put it, "Every leela son of advaita is born of a voidgin."
http://www.paragonhouse.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=89_93&products_id=377
Posted by: Robert Godwin at September 12, 2005 05:43 PM
K asks:
"Are we 'seduced' by the dance, by duality. Is the 'purpose' of human life to see, touch, feel, communicate? (control) While the 'soul' sleeps in the form, and awaits - what?"
Consciousness doesn't sleep in the form by choice. Consciousness is kept in bondage in the form by the conceptual delusion that one is the form.
So our purpose is not to be released. This is only a necessary step. Our purpose is to think and speak and act, to learn and solve and create and produce - from our true identity as consciousness when the delusion is corrected at our conceptual filter.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 06:01 PM
Joanie - I was able to access the Fossils post from my home computer but it does not come up on my work computer. I think a few others have said they're having problems with it.
Posted by: Divya at September 12, 2005 06:04 PM
Deepak and Divya, very thought-provoking. After thinking about this discussion for a time, I remembered that I was flipping through TV channels the other night and happened to see this show where scientists had managed to both film (with some crazy camera equipment) and capture (with some strange tube) some deep sea creatures that had never been seen before--this was at incredibly deep sea depths never reached before. The scientist was making new discoveries as they filmed--"That's a new one!", he'd say. "There's another new one!"
These creatures were SO bizarre-looking that I was dumbfounded. Why, I thought, would "God" make life, where it cannot be seen (without the assistance of lighting and scientists and all this high-tech camera stuff)--in the darkest place in the world--the most eccentric-looking? Why would "he" make these creatures so unique in appearance, so colorful, so striking where they cannot be seen even by each other? I appreciate both of these interpretations--leela and design. There is no "tinkering God who sits in a workshop" (to quote Deepak), but even with that in mind, it seems that the intelligence behind creation must have made this deep sea life so surreal purely for its own amusement/enjoyment/entertainment. To me, that idea is kind of mind-blowing.
Posted by: dulcie at September 12, 2005 06:30 PM
The truth is we are all advanced beings and you are experiencing full immersion 3D TV. The entertainment of the future is now.
This Life is really just a TV show. So don't take it so seriously, or the joke is on you.
Okay so some people are saying the Drama can be pretty heavy, and I agree, but nobody would watch or participate if this wasn't the case.
If we can all remember, what we have forgot, as many have and do, it can become a divine comedy which always reaches it's greatest heights after a good amount of drama.
Deep in the depth of space floats the Crystal City. It is here the audience watches, laughing and crying, cheering, and booing, wave to them they are watching now, and know only a brave soul would dare venture into the scene to participate becoming an actor in the grandest play of all.
~Infinite Play The Movie
http://infiniteplaythemovie.com/
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 06:40 PM
Tyan says:
"The ultimate answer is GOD.
And GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind."
There is only GOD. There is no other agency. When any one thinks, it is GOD that's thinking. When anyone speaks, it is GOD that is speaking. When anyone does anything, it is GOD that is doing it.
So mankind is only on kind of manifestation of GOD. So when we say GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind, we are actually GOD saying that ONESELF is completely out of OUR OWN observational field.
And this is because it is GOD who is doing the observing, and what is observing can never be observed by what is observing, any more than a camera can view itself, or a fingertip can touch itself.
When GOD realizes that ONE is all there is, ONE stops elevating ONESELF with the term GOD. We then seek a more functional term that can be used to awaken ONESELF in other human manifestations, by referring to ONESELF as Consciousness, or Awareness, etc.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 06:40 PM
I could not get the "Fossil" post to open either ... not last night at home, nor at work today. ????? Hey, maybe it's evolved and hind it's past
Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 07:10 PM
Of course that would be 'hid' and not 'hind' ...
Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 07:17 PM
Well Ravi, is basically hitting the nail on the head.
God "The Great Pretender" and just whom are you pretending to be?
Everyone laughed at the fool, thinking they were greater than he, but it was the fool that was free for he had forsaken ego. The joke was on them.
On a side note is there any Indian Lore about the "fool"?
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 07:19 PM
The fossil post glitch is interesting. I have been entertaining the idea that there is a divine reason for events such as these. Something that a finite mind could not comprehend but orchestrated by the infinite mind. Many would say it is a flaw an imperfection, and for sure that is what we would find it to be with the finite mind. Yet with the infinite mind we would see that it was perfection, there was one that was not meant to see, two that were distracted from what worried thee, and still more that simply were filled with wonder at what it could be.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 07:30 PM
Doug,
Hmmm... who is best to lead shiva or shakti? I imagine it to be a passionate exchange where both take the lead at different times until that moment when they dissolve into Oneness again.
But I'm a romantic...
How about you?
Love, Kristin
Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 12, 2005 08:36 PM
Wish I could agree that every culture has its value of oneness. The facts belie this statement what with Father ,Son and Holy spirit, and the many,many dieties of many worshippers world over.
Oneness or duality however the dance is never perfect, complete, graceful, symmetrical sensuous, wonderful, elgant, artistic,nor,reproductive as when it is done in partnership with another and that takes choreography which is design.The twain are really quite inseparable.
eldora
Posted by: eldorablandinlougheide at September 12, 2005 08:36 PM
Well, My son who is almost 6 has been on this wave length lately.. He starts by telling me last week that everything is made from molecules. We went on further to discuss this and how everything he touch was a source of energy. What struck a cord with me, is how open my six year old son is but as we all age we tend to really hold onto the concepts that seem most accurate to us. The ones that resinate most with us.
Next, my son just asked me how did this all start? Who was first one man? Big question?
Not really having a concrete answer for him. I told him there are a lot of theroies out there but "we" man started in many shapes and forms. I believe that many came into existance at once.
As for who or what orchestrated this existance.. it becomes very certain to me each day that we did. We are the "intelligent design". Being that my background is design and architecture... these words have great meaning to me not just from a scientific, sturctural energy but from a conceptual and philosophical energy..
As you said best Deepak- "There is balance, organization, centeredness, etc. Which is what the word "design" implies once we take it beyond the simplistic notion of a tinkering God who sits in a workshop making the universe the way a cobbler makes shoes."
As someone who creates and designs it comes from within and it has chaos and order- randomenss and repitition.
I must disagree with Divya- Intelligence Design does explain misery and ugliness in our world. You can look at it abstractly from the point of a great painting or building or architecture. Every component of that object contains thought and desgin. The very thoughts and concepts create the design. It is our very thought and design creating this very moment as we sit here and blog and debate. The ugliness as we percieve it is only our perception. And because we all have different percetions stimulating us to disagree or agree leaves us with opposites.. Bad-Good art, bad- good music, bad- good architecture, bad good life, bad- good people.... or does it?... for is it not just our perception of what we prefer?
As a great building stands exalted to the sky...so do the ruins of ancient past... All with a different story.... intrinsic to one central force...the universe.
Peace and love,
Suzanne
Posted by: snooze5 at September 12, 2005 09:34 PM
Deepak,
There is a query whch has plagued me for aeons .. maybe thats the reason I am reborn time and again in different avatars.
On the level of understanding, shiva and his dance of creation is something we Hindus live with.So all the doubts and confuson over It has to a large extent been sorted out mainly through Buddhas analysis. The theory Of Advaita I conform to totally. Like a dancer who is dancing with a pot of water balanced on her head, while the world sees her taking twirls , all she is concerned about is that not even a drop of water should spill from the pot. So similarly our focus has to be on liberation ,in merging ourselves with the One while living our life to its fullest.
My question is that If there was in the beginning just this One Intelligence ,All pervasive,All encompassing, where did Ignorance take birth from?? How Can Intelligence give birth to Ignorance?? How could have it been our choice to be separated from this Intelligence?
As a corollary, If it is the nature of Shiv to maifest As shakti, How can shakti Be ignorant?
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 12, 2005 09:45 PM
On the one hand, everyone seems to acknowledge that existence cannot be completely experienced or understood within a strictly logical and rational framework. Yet, everyone seems to try to articulate it logically. Obviously, this exercise is going to fall short.
An understanding of existence or creation cannot emerge from the mind whose input is only from the 5 sense organs. We must have the humility to acknowledge these limitations. Once the "I don't know" is clear then the possibility of knowing would possibly emerge.
I have had the fortune of being guided into (for a limited time) states of being that are illogical and ecstatic by a Guru who has the ability to guide your energies.
In fact, there is a 7 day session called "Leela, the play" later this month... that would help one to experience Leela.
Posted by: vish at September 12, 2005 11:10 PM
Perhaps the answer lay in attention and intelligence.
Have you ever seen someone burn food cooking on the stove because they had their attention in the wrong place? One could say that is pretty ignorant, and we would agree that the person does not want this to happen, yet it does. It can happen to the most intelligent. Perhaps one can be distracted by appearances which gives birth to ignorance.
Just some thought
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 11:25 PM
On a blog like this one ,we with our "limited senses" cannot by any stretch of imagination hope to ever decipher what 'state of being ' the others on this blog may have experienced. This is not the place to eulogise about our personal glories, because if they were truly those, then language and attitude would have been a lot more compassionate and energising
It is a given that most people who are taking time off to write here are those who are serious seekers,who must have traversed some part of their journey and must have crossed certain junctions . Elmentary answers which they have dealt with, is not what they are looking for. Why should one consider any religion especially Hinduism to give post dated cheques, the answers to which will come after ... vivekanada has said that the mind should be sincere in its thirst , only then will it be quenched.. This question was meant for Deepak, who I guess would understand its import.
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 12, 2005 11:33 PM
Hello Deepak and Everyone,
In the last few years I have experienced the deaths of members of my family, so I am contemplating form and the loss of form, a lot.
I ask myself how I would feel about losing my form, my identity? How would I feel about not being me anymore? Could I give up my identity? Being Ruth,I have experienced joy and sorrow, triumph and failure, births and deaths. I realize how much I love my form, the form of Ruth. It sounds strange to be thinking and feeling this way, but I am exploring.
I know myself beyond the form and identity of Ruth so I am at home beyond form, but the love I feel for Ruth is rich and deep. I can only imagine how the ONE must enjoy the creation of a myraid of form, endlessly. To experience the love of the creation is all encompassing.
Posted by: ruth at September 13, 2005 05:28 AM
An excerpt from "Consciousness and the Absolute", The final talks of Sri Nisrgadatta Maharaj:
'You are bent on having knowledge at the most mundane level, but whatever knowledge you collect is bound to disappear.
There is only one truth in the world, and that is that everything is unreal.'
Posted by: Bob Fisher at September 13, 2005 05:31 AM
Another word that is close to GOD is Enlightenment.
HE (IT. GOD) can only be experienced, not explained in words or by any other means.
I experienced Enlightenment.
I just had three blood samples taken. Two hours later, they put a needle into my hip bone & drew a few cc of my bone marrow for testing.
Then I walked out of the Cross Cancer Hospital.
The sun was shining & a soothing breeze was warming up my whole body. So I strolled to the nearby park instead of going to my car.
The sky was as blue as it can be. The leaves were green. Geese in pairs were puddling in the pond, tens of them.
At that moment, my worries seemed to have melted away. I felt this utmost ectasy in my mind, in my heart, in my whole body.....That huge oak, that's me; the kids running chasing after the balloons, that's me...........................
"Am I dying?
Am I seeing GOD?
No! I am GOD!"
I was just floating, or flying in the air,in space.....
I never had this 'complete' "wholeness" feeling in my life.
I was the sky. I was the trees. I was the world.
I was GOD!!!!
I could feel & see & hear the white blood cells & the plasmas
& the red blood cells & the blast cells merging & working together & they were me.
I was not myself. Yet everything I saw, I heard, I felt......was me!!!There was no difference. Everything was me. GOD was in me. GOD was me.
I then fully realized what ONENESS was about.
Was I real crazy or was that Enlightenment????
I was not sure & I am not sure.
But at that very moment, I was in complete control of myself(was there a 'myself'?), of the world, of all the happenings.........
I was in complete ectasy, joy....
I was nothing & I did not feel I had a body. Just some kind of consciousness, some energy that penetrated all universe!!
For how long? I didn't remember.
But I spent approx. two hours in the park that day.
After that, nothing really happened.
But I stopped having nightmares about my incurable leukeimia since then.
I live with the Universe!!
I still don't know what, or who GOD is!!
But GOD is here, is there, & is everywhere!!!!
GOD give us life to be enjoyed. No more & no less!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 13, 2005 06:15 AM
Great article and great comments every one of them. I find it interesting that mostly, they are all saying the samething in so many different ways.
Deepak says "the dance really has no inherent purpose" and Richard says "The infinite player is all about playing for the fun of playing". To me they mean the same thing.
K, I agree with you - all meanings are relative to what an individual, and groups - assign. I wish we, as a group, have a common understanding of what words we use with what meaning. While on this subject, I agree with Ravi Arapurakal that the phrase "levels of consciousness" used on this blog is confusing. So are the phrases "evolution of consciousness" and "mutation of consciousness". Consciousness is just one and never changing with no levels in it. We may talk about evolution of human intelligence or human mind.
Suzanne,
I agree with you that Design does explain why there is misery in the world. A game cannot be designed without a win state and a loss state. If I play with the purpose of winning, and I lose then I feel miserable. But if I play just for the fun of it and not care about win or loss, I have fun irrespective of whether I win or lose and playing is then Leela to me. It implies that I identify myself with both the winner and the loser.
Another example of opposites being inevitable
parts of Design: Deepak points out "creation and destruction are two aspects of the same ongoing flow." So true, we all enjoy Christmas and look forward to it throughout the year. We set up the Christmas tree, beautifully decorate it, invite friends over and we know all that merriment. After January 2nd, or at the end of January, or sometime or other, we have to remove the tree, and we may not feel like doing it and miss its beautiful looks. But if we don't, we will not have the excitement of setting the up the tree on the eve of the next Christmas.
Posted by: Syamala at September 13, 2005 06:37 AM
Tyan,
That was so beautifully written.. I have shared a simslar experience of this bliss.. indescribable. It opened me up. I was asthmatic for very many years before that and could not live without the inhaler.. But it vanished and has not returned for the past 7 years or so..It only encouraged me to dig in my heels deeper .. I have to know more and more and more..Therefore my question why were we ever separated from that Oneness?
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 07:06 AM
Tyan,
That was so beautifully written.. I have shared a similar experience .. indescribable..blissful.. It opened me up. I was asthmatic for very many years before that and could not live without the inhaler.. But after that day it vanished and has not returned for the past 7 years or so..It only encouraged me to dig in my heels deeper .. I have to know more and more and more..Therefore my question why were we ever separated from that Oneness?
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 07:08 AM
To kaveetaa,
To experience the contrast,
Neale Donald Walsh
(and for re-creational purposes..Vedanta
We are all born for love...it is the principle existence and it's only end. ---Disraeli
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:14 AM
Life is a song --- sing it.
Life is a game --- play it.
Life is a challenge --- meet it.
Life is a dream --- realize it.
Life is a sacrifice --- offer it.
Life is love --- enjoy it.
Sai Baba,
I would like to re-edit the sacrifice part,
sue, if nessecary, and ad:
Life is a joke, may I share a smile with you?
Life is a aggreement, shall I draw up the contract?
Life is a dance, may I have this dance?
Life is a fairytale, but only if you believe...
Peter Pan,
Neverland
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:20 AM
Life is a song --- sing it.
Life is a game --- play it.
Life is a challenge --- meet it.
Life is a dream --- realize it.
Life is a sacrifice --- offer it.
Life is love --- enjoy it.
Sai Baba,
I would like to re-edit the sacrifice part,
sue, if nessecary, and ad:
Life is a gift, may I offer it?
Life is a joke, may I share a smile with you?
Life is a aggreement, shall I draw up the contract?
Life is a dance, may I have this dance?
Life is a painting, where is my brush?
Life is a miracle, don´t you believe...?
Peter Pan,
Neverland
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:23 AM
posted by Deepak Chopra on September 12, 2005 at 12:45 PM
Divya has asked an interesting question about the relationship between Leela, the creative play of the cosmos, and design, the structure of the cosmos.
She uses the phrase "Leela versus design" the same way that cosmologists today would say "chaos versus order." I wonder if this opposition is really accurate.
Forms are always the end-product of a process, and over time every form is dissolved into another process. Creation and destruction are two aspects of the same ongoing flow. So far, we aren't in deep water, but the problem is that any duality is untrue to the ultimate Advaita, or non-dual view that lies at the heart of Vedanta. Since the human mind seems constructed along dualistic lines, its struggle to understand non-duality runs against the grain. Therefore, it is much simpler and feels more natural to seize one side of a dualistic argument and defend it even though every culture has the concept of Oneness, Allah, Brahman, Yahwah, the Absolute--an all-encompassing divine force.
Living your own life depends on duality. It's hard not to think in terms of opposites when everything is a choice, when the brain is constantly accepting and rejecting, when judging between right and wrong is so prevalent. India is extremely fortunate to have a non-dual legacy, because for all intents and purposes every other world religion has abandoned it.
As Divya points out, our heritage isn't moral, in the sense that God dictates a strict line between the holy and the unholy. There is no purpose in the universe the way Judgment Day implies a purpose to Christians. Nor is there even a spiritual purpose in a person's life, in the sense that obeying God's commands and hoping to win heaven instead of hell brings purpose to Christians, Muslims, and other faiths.
What we have instead is Leela, the play of creation. Which on the surface seems like an empty, aimless concept. After all, every society vastly prefers work to play. Yet in what way is dancing without purpose? To exhibit grace and beauty is a purpose. So is holding your balance while moving. So is organizing your limbs with control and skill. So is keeping centered and focused on what you are doing.
If you can accept that a dance has purpose, then Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity. Leela isn't doing a brainless seductive dance. There is balance, organization, centeredness, etc. Which is what the word "design" implies once we take it beyond the simplistic notion of a tinkering God who sits in a workshop making the universe the way a cobbler makes shoes.
I'd like to take this up against in a later post.
Comments
beautifully stated, Deepak...
and as a dance...you may take both/or either steps in duality recognizing that This is One Dance...love, Carolyn
Posted by: carolyn_wind at September 12, 2005 01:03 PM
Dear Deepak,
Is it possible - that the 'dance' really has no inherent 'purpose'. All meanings are relative to what an individual, and groups - assign.
Is being, without doing, the 'highest' form to attain?
And 'once there' - do we not unite into the One?
~~ K
Posted by: K at September 12, 2005 01:26 PM
Deepak,
Understanding this is what leads to an end of all the worlds conflict. What you wrote contains essential insight and it has a very positive effect, it is the best thing I read today.
The infinite player is all about playing for the fun of playing, and although they may engage a finite game they never forget that the winner and loser are one and the same.
~Infinite Play The Movie
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 02:28 PM
Dear Deepak,
Thank you for taking up this fascinating topic. The concept of Leela flashed into my mind as I was mulling over your recent articles on ID. However, I did not mean to pitch Chaos vs. Order, but rather Randomness vs. Purpose.
The concept of Design, specially adorned with an adjective such as intelligent, cannot explain the misery and ugliness in the world. The concept of Leela does not run into any such problems. Moreover, the concept of Design is absent from all Asian thought - Japanese, Chinese, and of course, all of the Indic traditions, as well as from the Native American and African traditions.
Can we see Leela as purpose? Or can we just make the most of this Leela, rejoice in it, dance along with it? Or else stew in it, be driven to madness by it, grovel in misery?
Regards,
Divya
Posted by: Divya at September 12, 2005 02:30 PM
Dear Deepak,
Is it possible that there is this cosmic dance just for its own sake instead of having any purpose behind this cosmic play/drama/dance
Love,
Venky
Posted by: Venky at September 12, 2005 02:46 PM
Hi Deepak,
Leela's purpose is the joy of awakening - and also the joy of the dance. When we let go of our egos illusion of self importance and quit taking ourselves and life so seriously, then we begin to appreciate the delicious flavors and sensations inherent in the dancing itself - as well as the ecstacy of awakening to our True Nature.
For me, what often interferes with the enjoyment of this dance is fear (of death, of the truth that OMG I'm not all that important!)...
Okay, so there are a few other things that interfere too, but if I could just get over that klesha I'd be home free - and dancing to my seductive hearts content, just for the pure joy of it.
Love, Kristin
Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 12, 2005 03:12 PM
And of course, since this is after all a partnered dance, we have to come to an understanding about who is best at taking the lead, don't we?
Posted by: Doug at September 12, 2005 03:48 PM
Deepak says:
"Since the human mind seems constructed along dualistic lines, its struggle to understand non-duality runs against the grain."
I am glad you said "seems". We should not encourage the delusion that dualism is intrinsic to our minds. This discourages even the attempt to overcome dualism, which is the first and the last error that every one of us must learn to correct and surpass.
Indeed, the human mind is NOT constructed along dualistic lines. It is not a constructed thing. It is an uploaded thing at all. It is a rather a programmed thing.
Our minds are determined by our conceptual content. And its conceptual content is uploaded into us from early childhood.
When the conceptual domain first emerged among us, we were not aware of it. We did not know it was mediating between us and our experiences. So we were not aware that it was taking the form of our sensory experiences, which were based on distinctions (boundaries) between what we noticed and what we didn't.
So the granular nature of our sense experiences were replicated in their copies as conceptual units (memories). And the granular nature of our conceptual content became the filter through which we interpreted everything we experienced.
Indeed, whereas distinctions at the sensory level were only appearances, the counterparts of these distinctions in their conceptual replication became absolute, projecting a granular and scattered model of a reality, that despite the appearace of sensory distinctions, were ultimately a seamless and fluid unity.
Those who learn to withdraw the focus of their attention from the sensory world toward the conceptual filter that interprets it for us, can begin the process of identifying our conceptual errors and contradictions, and gradually resolve them.
This is what everyone must know, we can overcome the appearance of duality in our mind, by correcting the problem where it is situated, in the conceptual content in our minds.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 03:51 PM
GOD(plural, the almighty, the omnipotent, the omnipresent, timeless...)give us life so that we can enjoy it, no more & no less.
Chaos Theory has it that a butterfly flapping its wings in Central Park in New York can cause a tornado in South Africa.
I sneezed at 6.00 a.m. on Saturday, June 11, 2005 in Canada and since then California has had four earthquakes.
GOD also create tha ant colonies, the honey-bee making honey, the million species of moths, cancerous cells, virus..........................,the Law of Cause & Effect.
The Law of Cause & Effect controls every single minute of our lives; we cannot live apart from it.
Every little part of our lives, even our mental activities of perception, emotion, and volution, play out according to the Law of Cause and Effect.
Therefore, if we seek a joyous life, we should sow good seeds. Then we will taste the sweetness of our good fruit.
There is nothing in this world that can escape the Law of Cause & Effect. Once unwholesome karms is done, a bad effect will surely follow (for example, if you fart, it stinks!). If we stop creating bad karma and keep producing good karma, we will be free from suffering one day and we will attain true joy.
Only IGNORANCE can prevent us from escaping suffering.
The only Enlightenment is through Ultimate Wisdom.
A good dancer can bring inspiration to millions & save thousands from taking their own lives that GOD give them.
GOD's will is thus not done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 12, 2005 03:58 PM
.
wow..
Some Quotes
"The feet may learn the steps, but only the spirit can dance"
"Dance isn't a form it's a way of life"
"Dancers are the athletes of God", Albert Einstein
"We dance for laughter, we dance for tears, we dance for madness, we dance for fears, we dance for hopes, we dance for screams, we are the dancers, we create the dreams"
"To dance is to be out of yourself. Larger, more beautiful, more powerful. This is power, it is glory on earth and it is yours for the taking", Agnes De Mille
"If dancing were any easier it would be called football"
"Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another"
"I don't have an attitude, I'm just REALLY good!", Dance Caravan
"The people who do not dance are the dead", Jerry Rose, Dance Caravan
"Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but she did it backwards and in high heels"
"You know you're dancing when tears of pain and happiness blend in with your sweat"
"Dance is the hidden language of the soul and the body", Martha Graham
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance"
"We do not always dance because we are happy, But we dance and cannot help but become happy"
"Someone need not be perfect to be a great dancer - feeling a soul is more important than what the body can do", Marcia Haydée, Dance Magazine
"Dancers offer us our only earthly chance to catch a glimpse of the angelic host"
"Work like you don't need the money LOVE like you've never been hurt DANCE like there's no body watching!"
Love, Passion! and a dance...
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 12, 2005 04:04 PM
“What we have instead is Leela, the play of creation. … Yet in what way is dancing without purpose? To exhibit grace and beauty is a purpose…
If you can accept that a dance has purpose, then Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity. …” ~ Deepak Chopra
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to dance, so this was very beautiful to read. Many, many years ago, I use to get asked to participate in dance contests, but never did, as I so enjoy the very act of dancing and not the competition … disappointed a lot of partners … oh, well. I still love to dance, but it is more private now.
Love,
Char
Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 04:19 PM
K asks:
"Is being, without doing, the 'highest' form to attain?
" And 'once there' - do we not unite into the One?"
We are, every last one of us, already in our highest form, all one and the selfsame being.
So there is nothing to attain, but the removal of the conceptually projected delusion that we are all discrete and separate entities.
And once "here", we merely recognize that oneself and all others were already One.
Attainment implies a journey (distance and delay) between oneself and a desired state.
This very act of deferring the attainment of one's true state perpetuates our bondage in duality, if only because the highest we can attain was already always here. We only thought we were not.
So, instead of seeking and pursuing, consider purging what is keeping us from recognizing this.
The model of cleaning up a fliter that is already here is very different from pursuing what is also already here as thought it were not here. The latter only worsens the problem by deferring what cannot be deferred, if only because it was already always here.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 04:36 PM
"We are, every last one of us, already in our highest form, all one and the selfsame being.
So there is nothing to attain, but the removal of the conceptually projected delusion that we are all discrete and separate entities.
And once "here", we merely recognize that oneself and all others were already One."
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal
How shocking to realize that we always have been This...love, Carolyn
Posted by: carolyn_wind at September 12, 2005 04:52 PM
Does a chick come first or an egg come first?
Unanswerable!!
At best, an exercise in futility!
At worst, a fool's worry that the sky is going to fall tomorrow.
Science is a systematic study of the material world. Faith is a great leap forward from nothing to reality.
Let us keep our faith & keep up with our scientific evolution at the same time.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Humankind exists until everything is annihilated!!!!
Yin & Yang are the two ends of the continuum. The end of one is the beginning of the other.
Absolute silence is the loudest sound on earth.
Complete stillness is the ultimate movement that can possibly exist.
Perfect rationality is complete insanity.
The ultimate answer is GOD.
And GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind.
New discoveries, like web bloggers, real life, on-line communication...are our only salvation.
Science is our solution.
GOD(faith) is our answer!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 12, 2005 04:53 PM
Deepak,
Just an FYI The fossils post does not come up and stay up, not sure if anyone else is experiencing this...
Joanie
Posted by: Joanie at September 12, 2005 04:57 PM
Hi Ravi,
Thanks for your post. It prompts another queston(s)!
It does 'seem' life is a progression - certainly this is apparent in form, as one ages
This is apparent in nature as well.
Are we 'seduced' by the dance, by duality. Is the 'purpose' of human life to see, touch, feel, communicate? (control) While the 'soul' sleeps in the form, and awaits - what?
Thanks for sharing!
~~ K
Posted by: K at September 12, 2005 05:30 PM
As James Joyce might have put it, "Every leela son of advaita is born of a voidgin."
http://www.paragonhouse.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=89_93&products_id=377
Posted by: Robert Godwin at September 12, 2005 05:43 PM
K asks:
"Are we 'seduced' by the dance, by duality. Is the 'purpose' of human life to see, touch, feel, communicate? (control) While the 'soul' sleeps in the form, and awaits - what?"
Consciousness doesn't sleep in the form by choice. Consciousness is kept in bondage in the form by the conceptual delusion that one is the form.
So our purpose is not to be released. This is only a necessary step. Our purpose is to think and speak and act, to learn and solve and create and produce - from our true identity as consciousness when the delusion is corrected at our conceptual filter.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 06:01 PM
Joanie - I was able to access the Fossils post from my home computer but it does not come up on my work computer. I think a few others have said they're having problems with it.
Posted by: Divya at September 12, 2005 06:04 PM
Deepak and Divya, very thought-provoking. After thinking about this discussion for a time, I remembered that I was flipping through TV channels the other night and happened to see this show where scientists had managed to both film (with some crazy camera equipment) and capture (with some strange tube) some deep sea creatures that had never been seen before--this was at incredibly deep sea depths never reached before. The scientist was making new discoveries as they filmed--"That's a new one!", he'd say. "There's another new one!"
These creatures were SO bizarre-looking that I was dumbfounded. Why, I thought, would "God" make life, where it cannot be seen (without the assistance of lighting and scientists and all this high-tech camera stuff)--in the darkest place in the world--the most eccentric-looking? Why would "he" make these creatures so unique in appearance, so colorful, so striking where they cannot be seen even by each other? I appreciate both of these interpretations--leela and design. There is no "tinkering God who sits in a workshop" (to quote Deepak), but even with that in mind, it seems that the intelligence behind creation must have made this deep sea life so surreal purely for its own amusement/enjoyment/entertainment. To me, that idea is kind of mind-blowing.
Posted by: dulcie at September 12, 2005 06:30 PM
The truth is we are all advanced beings and you are experiencing full immersion 3D TV. The entertainment of the future is now.
This Life is really just a TV show. So don't take it so seriously, or the joke is on you.
Okay so some people are saying the Drama can be pretty heavy, and I agree, but nobody would watch or participate if this wasn't the case.
If we can all remember, what we have forgot, as many have and do, it can become a divine comedy which always reaches it's greatest heights after a good amount of drama.
Deep in the depth of space floats the Crystal City. It is here the audience watches, laughing and crying, cheering, and booing, wave to them they are watching now, and know only a brave soul would dare venture into the scene to participate becoming an actor in the grandest play of all.
~Infinite Play The Movie
http://infiniteplaythemovie.com/
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 06:40 PM
Tyan says:
"The ultimate answer is GOD.
And GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind."
There is only GOD. There is no other agency. When any one thinks, it is GOD that's thinking. When anyone speaks, it is GOD that is speaking. When anyone does anything, it is GOD that is doing it.
So mankind is only on kind of manifestation of GOD. So when we say GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind, we are actually GOD saying that ONESELF is completely out of OUR OWN observational field.
And this is because it is GOD who is doing the observing, and what is observing can never be observed by what is observing, any more than a camera can view itself, or a fingertip can touch itself.
When GOD realizes that ONE is all there is, ONE stops elevating ONESELF with the term GOD. We then seek a more functional term that can be used to awaken ONESELF in other human manifestations, by referring to ONESELF as Consciousness, or Awareness, etc.
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 06:40 PM
I could not get the "Fossil" post to open either ... not last night at home, nor at work today. ????? Hey, maybe it's evolved and hind it's past
Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 07:10 PM
Of course that would be 'hid' and not 'hind' ...
Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 07:17 PM
Well Ravi, is basically hitting the nail on the head.
God "The Great Pretender" and just whom are you pretending to be?
Everyone laughed at the fool, thinking they were greater than he, but it was the fool that was free for he had forsaken ego. The joke was on them.
On a side note is there any Indian Lore about the "fool"?
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 07:19 PM
The fossil post glitch is interesting. I have been entertaining the idea that there is a divine reason for events such as these. Something that a finite mind could not comprehend but orchestrated by the infinite mind. Many would say it is a flaw an imperfection, and for sure that is what we would find it to be with the finite mind. Yet with the infinite mind we would see that it was perfection, there was one that was not meant to see, two that were distracted from what worried thee, and still more that simply were filled with wonder at what it could be.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 07:30 PM
Doug,
Hmmm... who is best to lead shiva or shakti? I imagine it to be a passionate exchange where both take the lead at different times until that moment when they dissolve into Oneness again.
But I'm a romantic...
How about you?
Love, Kristin
Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 12, 2005 08:36 PM
Wish I could agree that every culture has its value of oneness. The facts belie this statement what with Father ,Son and Holy spirit, and the many,many dieties of many worshippers world over.
Oneness or duality however the dance is never perfect, complete, graceful, symmetrical sensuous, wonderful, elgant, artistic,nor,reproductive as when it is done in partnership with another and that takes choreography which is design.The twain are really quite inseparable.
eldora
Posted by: eldorablandinlougheide at September 12, 2005 08:36 PM
Well, My son who is almost 6 has been on this wave length lately.. He starts by telling me last week that everything is made from molecules. We went on further to discuss this and how everything he touch was a source of energy. What struck a cord with me, is how open my six year old son is but as we all age we tend to really hold onto the concepts that seem most accurate to us. The ones that resinate most with us.
Next, my son just asked me how did this all start? Who was first one man? Big question?
Not really having a concrete answer for him. I told him there are a lot of theroies out there but "we" man started in many shapes and forms. I believe that many came into existance at once.
As for who or what orchestrated this existance.. it becomes very certain to me each day that we did. We are the "intelligent design". Being that my background is design and architecture... these words have great meaning to me not just from a scientific, sturctural energy but from a conceptual and philosophical energy..
As you said best Deepak- "There is balance, organization, centeredness, etc. Which is what the word "design" implies once we take it beyond the simplistic notion of a tinkering God who sits in a workshop making the universe the way a cobbler makes shoes."
As someone who creates and designs it comes from within and it has chaos and order- randomenss and repitition.
I must disagree with Divya- Intelligence Design does explain misery and ugliness in our world. You can look at it abstractly from the point of a great painting or building or architecture. Every component of that object contains thought and desgin. The very thoughts and concepts create the design. It is our very thought and design creating this very moment as we sit here and blog and debate. The ugliness as we percieve it is only our perception. And because we all have different percetions stimulating us to disagree or agree leaves us with opposites.. Bad-Good art, bad- good music, bad- good architecture, bad good life, bad- good people.... or does it?... for is it not just our perception of what we prefer?
As a great building stands exalted to the sky...so do the ruins of ancient past... All with a different story.... intrinsic to one central force...the universe.
Peace and love,
Suzanne
Posted by: snooze5 at September 12, 2005 09:34 PM
Deepak,
There is a query whch has plagued me for aeons .. maybe thats the reason I am reborn time and again in different avatars.
On the level of understanding, shiva and his dance of creation is something we Hindus live with.So all the doubts and confuson over It has to a large extent been sorted out mainly through Buddhas analysis. The theory Of Advaita I conform to totally. Like a dancer who is dancing with a pot of water balanced on her head, while the world sees her taking twirls , all she is concerned about is that not even a drop of water should spill from the pot. So similarly our focus has to be on liberation ,in merging ourselves with the One while living our life to its fullest.
My question is that If there was in the beginning just this One Intelligence ,All pervasive,All encompassing, where did Ignorance take birth from?? How Can Intelligence give birth to Ignorance?? How could have it been our choice to be separated from this Intelligence?
As a corollary, If it is the nature of Shiv to maifest As shakti, How can shakti Be ignorant?
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 12, 2005 09:45 PM
On the one hand, everyone seems to acknowledge that existence cannot be completely experienced or understood within a strictly logical and rational framework. Yet, everyone seems to try to articulate it logically. Obviously, this exercise is going to fall short.
An understanding of existence or creation cannot emerge from the mind whose input is only from the 5 sense organs. We must have the humility to acknowledge these limitations. Once the "I don't know" is clear then the possibility of knowing would possibly emerge.
I have had the fortune of being guided into (for a limited time) states of being that are illogical and ecstatic by a Guru who has the ability to guide your energies.
In fact, there is a 7 day session called "Leela, the play" later this month... that would help one to experience Leela.
Posted by: vish at September 12, 2005 11:10 PM
Perhaps the answer lay in attention and intelligence.
Have you ever seen someone burn food cooking on the stove because they had their attention in the wrong place? One could say that is pretty ignorant, and we would agree that the person does not want this to happen, yet it does. It can happen to the most intelligent. Perhaps one can be distracted by appearances which gives birth to ignorance.
Just some thought
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 11:25 PM
On a blog like this one ,we with our "limited senses" cannot by any stretch of imagination hope to ever decipher what 'state of being ' the others on this blog may have experienced. This is not the place to eulogise about our personal glories, because if they were truly those, then language and attitude would have been a lot more compassionate and energising
It is a given that most people who are taking time off to write here are those who are serious seekers,who must have traversed some part of their journey and must have crossed certain junctions . Elmentary answers which they have dealt with, is not what they are looking for. Why should one consider any religion especially Hinduism to give post dated cheques, the answers to which will come after ... vivekanada has said that the mind should be sincere in its thirst , only then will it be quenched.. This question was meant for Deepak, who I guess would understand its import.
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 12, 2005 11:33 PM
Hello Deepak and Everyone,
In the last few years I have experienced the deaths of members of my family, so I am contemplating form and the loss of form, a lot.
I ask myself how I would feel about losing my form, my identity? How would I feel about not being me anymore? Could I give up my identity? Being Ruth,I have experienced joy and sorrow, triumph and failure, births and deaths. I realize how much I love my form, the form of Ruth. It sounds strange to be thinking and feeling this way, but I am exploring.
I know myself beyond the form and identity of Ruth so I am at home beyond form, but the love I feel for Ruth is rich and deep. I can only imagine how the ONE must enjoy the creation of a myraid of form, endlessly. To experience the love of the creation is all encompassing.
Posted by: ruth at September 13, 2005 05:28 AM
An excerpt from "Consciousness and the Absolute", The final talks of Sri Nisrgadatta Maharaj:
'You are bent on having knowledge at the most mundane level, but whatever knowledge you collect is bound to disappear.
There is only one truth in the world, and that is that everything is unreal.'
Posted by: Bob Fisher at September 13, 2005 05:31 AM
Another word that is close to GOD is Enlightenment.
HE (IT. GOD) can only be experienced, not explained in words or by any other means.
I experienced Enlightenment.
I just had three blood samples taken. Two hours later, they put a needle into my hip bone & drew a few cc of my bone marrow for testing.
Then I walked out of the Cross Cancer Hospital.
The sun was shining & a soothing breeze was warming up my whole body. So I strolled to the nearby park instead of going to my car.
The sky was as blue as it can be. The leaves were green. Geese in pairs were puddling in the pond, tens of them.
At that moment, my worries seemed to have melted away. I felt this utmost ectasy in my mind, in my heart, in my whole body.....That huge oak, that's me; the kids running chasing after the balloons, that's me...........................
"Am I dying?
Am I seeing GOD?
No! I am GOD!"
I was just floating, or flying in the air,in space.....
I never had this 'complete' "wholeness" feeling in my life.
I was the sky. I was the trees. I was the world.
I was GOD!!!!
I could feel & see & hear the white blood cells & the plasmas
& the red blood cells & the blast cells merging & working together & they were me.
I was not myself. Yet everything I saw, I heard, I felt......was me!!!There was no difference. Everything was me. GOD was in me. GOD was me.
I then fully realized what ONENESS was about.
Was I real crazy or was that Enlightenment????
I was not sure & I am not sure.
But at that very moment, I was in complete control of myself(was there a 'myself'?), of the world, of all the happenings.........
I was in complete ectasy, joy....
I was nothing & I did not feel I had a body. Just some kind of consciousness, some energy that penetrated all universe!!
For how long? I didn't remember.
But I spent approx. two hours in the park that day.
After that, nothing really happened.
But I stopped having nightmares about my incurable leukeimia since then.
I live with the Universe!!
I still don't know what, or who GOD is!!
But GOD is here, is there, & is everywhere!!!!
GOD give us life to be enjoyed. No more & no less!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 13, 2005 06:15 AM
Great article and great comments every one of them. I find it interesting that mostly, they are all saying the samething in so many different ways.
Deepak says "the dance really has no inherent purpose" and Richard says "The infinite player is all about playing for the fun of playing". To me they mean the same thing.
K, I agree with you - all meanings are relative to what an individual, and groups - assign. I wish we, as a group, have a common understanding of what words we use with what meaning. While on this subject, I agree with Ravi Arapurakal that the phrase "levels of consciousness" used on this blog is confusing. So are the phrases "evolution of consciousness" and "mutation of consciousness". Consciousness is just one and never changing with no levels in it. We may talk about evolution of human intelligence or human mind.
Suzanne,
I agree with you that Design does explain why there is misery in the world. A game cannot be designed without a win state and a loss state. If I play with the purpose of winning, and I lose then I feel miserable. But if I play just for the fun of it and not care about win or loss, I have fun irrespective of whether I win or lose and playing is then Leela to me. It implies that I identify myself with both the winner and the loser.
Another example of opposites being inevitable
parts of Design: Deepak points out "creation and destruction are two aspects of the same ongoing flow." So true, we all enjoy Christmas and look forward to it throughout the year. We set up the Christmas tree, beautifully decorate it, invite friends over and we know all that merriment. After January 2nd, or at the end of January, or sometime or other, we have to remove the tree, and we may not feel like doing it and miss its beautiful looks. But if we don't, we will not have the excitement of setting the up the tree on the eve of the next Christmas.
Posted by: Syamala at September 13, 2005 06:37 AM
Tyan,
That was so beautifully written.. I have shared a simslar experience of this bliss.. indescribable. It opened me up. I was asthmatic for very many years before that and could not live without the inhaler.. But it vanished and has not returned for the past 7 years or so..It only encouraged me to dig in my heels deeper .. I have to know more and more and more..Therefore my question why were we ever separated from that Oneness?
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 07:06 AM
Tyan,
That was so beautifully written.. I have shared a similar experience .. indescribable..blissful.. It opened me up. I was asthmatic for very many years before that and could not live without the inhaler.. But after that day it vanished and has not returned for the past 7 years or so..It only encouraged me to dig in my heels deeper .. I have to know more and more and more..Therefore my question why were we ever separated from that Oneness?
Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 07:08 AM
To kaveetaa,
To experience the contrast,
Neale Donald Walsh
(and for re-creational purposes..Vedanta
We are all born for love...it is the principle existence and it's only end. ---Disraeli
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:14 AM
Life is a song --- sing it.
Life is a game --- play it.
Life is a challenge --- meet it.
Life is a dream --- realize it.
Life is a sacrifice --- offer it.
Life is love --- enjoy it.
Sai Baba,
I would like to re-edit the sacrifice part,
sue, if nessecary, and ad:
Life is a joke, may I share a smile with you?
Life is a aggreement, shall I draw up the contract?
Life is a dance, may I have this dance?
Life is a fairytale, but only if you believe...
Peter Pan,
Neverland
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:20 AM
Life is a song --- sing it.
Life is a game --- play it.
Life is a challenge --- meet it.
Life is a dream --- realize it.
Life is a sacrifice --- offer it.
Life is love --- enjoy it.
Sai Baba,
I would like to re-edit the sacrifice part,
sue, if nessecary, and ad:
Life is a gift, may I offer it?
Life is a joke, may I share a smile with you?
Life is a aggreement, shall I draw up the contract?
Life is a dance, may I have this dance?
Life is a painting, where is my brush?
Life is a miracle, don´t you believe...?
Peter Pan,
Neverland
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:23 AM
posted by Unknown @ 4:06 AM
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