http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2006/04/weekly_intent_1.html

Weekly Intent -- Marek Dariusz Podsiadlo
Gotham Chopra - April 29, 2006

Serial commenter Marek Dariusz Podsiadlo is this week's featured blogger.
He blogs at Lost Boys From Neverland:

‘...Nie czuj_c dni, godzin, lat,
Nie licz_c zysków, ani strat,
Okr__amy, op_ywamy wokó_ _wiat.
A je_li drugi wida_ brzeg,
Muzyka to najlepszy lek,
Ona jest jak w d_ugiej trasie
Pi_ty bieg...’
- Budka Suflera

‘…Not feeling days, hours, or years,
Not counting profits, nor losses,
We, orbit, sail, the world round,
And when, the other shore looks in sight,
Music, is, the best medicine,
She’s like.., on a long journey,
A fifth gear..’
- Budka Suflera

Just a little…something, for.. the souls in stormy waters..outthere.. Na Zdrowie!

Now, that’s done, I’ll be your Navigator (and DJ ;) on these virtual waves..
only your Innerchild allowed! Article 1 in my Spiritual Codex, leave your conditioning where you found it, and..

Now this is the story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside down
And I’d like to take a minute just sit right there
I’ll tell you how I became a little twinkle here on Intent..;)

In Gdansk, TriCity, Poland, born and raised in the gym, that’s where I spent most of my days
Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool
And lifting some weights outside of the EUR.

When a couple of, suppressing, Communistic badguys, they were up to no good!
Started making trouble in my neighbourhood,
My dad got in one little fight, then a general declared Martial Law,
and my mom got scared,
And said "we’re moving to a Kingdom, far far away.…"
;)..

Well, it’s Queens Day 2006 in the Dutch Kingdom, while I’m writing this,
the customs, are, the subjects head out, in the morning, to (try) to sell, all their worthless crap,
they have been collecting in their garages over the last year,
on the streets, to earn some, free from taxation, Euro’s, to get wasted in the evening…,
in bars, or festivals, a Dutch tradition, all in all, good family fun, but the weather God’s this year..nasty, nasty, very nasty!, nonetheless, I gotta wrap this up quick, so, I can.. heck,
even Dr. Livingstone must have thought to himself: live with the natives, get drunk with the natives! ;)

In this particular moment in time, I still have two legal cases on my desk, before I can, finally head and chase me some applepie.. on Christmas Eve in my home country, but, the wheels of Lady Justice turn slow, very slow...is it a coincidence..portrait as a..’she’..? offcourse!, we would..never! ;) well, my favourite law proffessor/judge, also a ‘big fan’ of the ‘magical’ combo of Law and female.., verdicts and judges..mhhmmnn..things that make you go.. yin and yang..;)

Anyhow, his thesis, he wrote on, what could be called, the legal equivalent of Deepak’s Law Of Giving, freely translated, normative explanation of acts of law, or ‘think first, act later’ or
‘think and stay home’, or ‘why bother, my brother?’, to be dilligent or to be sued..
but that, offcourse, is what keeps the ‘Law’ in ‘Business’, not mentioning the critics..

Where was I? ah right, now I remember..

‘we’re all spirits and are melted into air, into thin air; and like the baseless fabric of this vision, the cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, the solemn temples, the great globe itself, yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve; and, like this insubstantial pageant faded, leave not a rack behind.

We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep.
- Shakespeare, The Tempest, Act IV

The Quest-ion is.. a lucid one..?

What are ‘soulmates’..?

The wheel of Samsara, and the Vedanta…
How many freakin’ incarnations are there!?!? Necessary..?
Why? Do I..?
Get bored..sometimes..
In a re-creational universe…

Questions to ponder..

That, and why, don’t Dutch girls, wear skirts and dresses?
Why do I always have to be the designated babysitter?

Can we clone: 1. Keri Russell 2. Alicia Keys 3. Catherina Zeta Jones..?
And, Meg Ryan or..that is.. the dilemma..
heck, you can’t ever have enough..

Right..?

I’m out,
Oh, almost forgot..
girls, girls..princesses..did I mention..
With..
Love, PASSION!!

Posted by Gotham Chopra at April 29, 2006 08:23 PM

Comments
Dear Spirit, Marek, without failure, you have graced my heart with your wit and charm, you are a cut above many men.. my admiration is yours, as you have always known. Perhaps in an other lifetime, a thousand years from now, tables of age will reverse; and I will be chasing your coat-tails..with humble pie.(giggles)

May your bottom, always have a top.(wink)

North

Posted by: North at April 29, 2006 08:47 PM

Ahem, I was talking 2-crust pie, people!! where are your minds?(smiles.)

North

Posted by: North at April 29, 2006 08:50 PM

Marek,

Well now...what have we here? A regular...bravo!

Single men on a Saturday night, might be "allright

for fightin', get a little action in"...not E.J.'s way,

Girls! Girls! Girls! From a balding, motley crew-cut,

Wishin'ya better luck than I have, Rock on! Keith

Posted by: Keith Watson at April 29, 2006 09:28 PM

Marek: All right boy--enough's enough!

What do I mean by that?

Well.....I finally had to breakdown and go to your blogsite and get a firsthand "look see" of "the man, the myth, the legend" who is Marek.

I have a "best friend" who has indirectly (or maybe directly!) implied you are very good-looking--personally, I'm not much of a judge about other mens' looks, however, I will take it that my friend knows what she is talking about.

Very much liked your pictures--it seems you have a "Southern California" coastal area, replete with imported palms, and surf shops--very very good sign as a good place to live!

You even seem to have a pair of "sunglasses" similar to ones I occasionally wear; ones that have transition lens--blue "inside," green outside.

The key consideration I have, Marek, is whether I need to come over to Poland, and manifest a non-lethal "industrial accident" that brings your face more into a "level playing field" with my own--in other words, we're going to have to mess up your looks a bit; your cooperation with this matter would save me a considerable amount of airfare, as well.

In the pic with the pink shirt, I must say you remind me of the American actor, Matthew McConaughey, except with shorter hair.

But Marek, that shirt is more "pink" than the one Deepak was wearing with his driver club at the golf course--do we have yet another fashion fad I'm completely in the dark about?

On a more serious note, I wish you had written more of your own words about your background, intentions, etc. etc., rather than listing other blogsites that may give hints as "to who you are."

Hope you will "fill in the pieces" some more, as people respond to your "Weekly Intent;" or simply chime in and write more of your ideas as it goes along--absolutely loved your "religious post" about how "shithe" is found in all religious underpinnings! Dave

Posted by: David at April 30, 2006 02:07 AM

Oh--and Marek, Gotham referred to you as a "serial poster."

Does this mean you are some kind of known criminal; like a cyber "serial rapist?"

If this is the case, and we posters need to get the word out about you in our "cyber neighborhoods," my thought was not to put your pictures on milk cartons; but rather, good to all the bakeries and have your face plastered on every "pie container" known to man, and woman! Dave


Posted by: David at April 30, 2006 02:18 AM

Marek,

"Tinker Bell" kept going off, so I'm up but quezzy,

sea-sickness or drinkin' with the natives, doesn't matter,

I presume Dr.L.

What a little fairy dust won't do, aye, methinks

it could put some hair on ye chest, so why can't it

work on me head? Aargh!

And a young lad ye are, mate! Whilst the men me's

age try to look dashing, ye sounded more mature

than me knows ye are now. Shall keep me salt handy!

Sends Me2 the Dutch, skirtless ladies in de blue

jeans, tell Peter Pan to babysit and sail on...Land Ho! Keith

Posted by: Keith Watson at April 30, 2006 05:37 AM

Mmmm. Pie.

Posted by: Joaquín at April 30, 2006 05:46 AM

I feel like I now know a celebrity, a lawyer with understanding AND compassion nonetheless, and a passion for life unbridled: omigod!

I wish they all could be California, oops, I mean Dutch girls . . .

peace Marek


Posted by: Craig at April 30, 2006 06:15 AM

W O W!
how cool! Dzieki! (only the links, guys..;)
I was expecting some Mega-trash talk,
but, love all you guys, not just a Spirit thing..

anyway, ;)
Captain's Log, Starship Dariusz Enterprise, Stardate: Day after, Queens day 2006;
We took minimum damage to the liver,
after 28 orbit's around the sun,
we rather take a good nap then entertain these
Dutch female 'conditioned bundles of reflexes'
so we had to abort the (sex?)-mission, to be continiued into further explorations...;)

anyway, guys, everybody posted,
A bottle of Wodka, and sernik will always be, at my (polish) casa (soon), Pacta sunt servanda!, Gentleman's Agreement!

Anyway,
more seriously;
What's wrong with pink?
and,
I'm on a sabbatical, i'll have to finish up, 2 cases, then I'm off for Poland, sign up for some Polish Law, recreative, offcourse, got to check out the student scene, before I'm really too old..;) and get back where I left my 'esoteric trips' in poland,
http://www.silvaultramindsystem.com/
but offcourse, prioritys must be made, so
first this love thing, the polish way ;)

but to explain;
My dad, was a navigator in the polish merchant fleet, and was one of the first, but in those days there were no labor movements, yet, so from scratch, later they got togheter in 'Solidarity' and the only one 'intelectually challenged' or dumb enough was Walesa.. came to the table;
but getting back;
What to do, when the Russians army invades?,
and smuggling presses into the country, becuase the only ones were in the hands of 'opponents', were hot items back then, later the first people got betrayed, who, could, fled, my dad was on a ship, near Antwerp, heared about it, and
asked and recieved political asylym, no medal,
just a Dutch passport.., that and his name in the secret polish police records, public record
now, you gotta be proud of your..

anyway,
while honor, where honor is due,

Let's talk about..
hhhmmn.. girls..
and this thing..

what was the song..?

Love, Passion!

Posted by: marekpodsiadlo@gmail.com at April 30, 2006 08:06 AM

Sounds like your life and that of your family, Marek; were deeply interupted. AS time moves forward, I hope all will become as it should be, re-settled in all of your lives.

All the best after your sabatical!!

North

Posted by: North at April 30, 2006 08:18 AM

Marek,
Since you joined the intentblog last summer, you have been one of the voices that I have most looked forward to reading. Joyful. Pleasant. Steady. Sometimes questioning, but always respectful of others. When you are absent from the blog, you are missed. Patzi

Posted by: Patzi Raven at April 30, 2006 09:33 AM

Marek,

Cool rhymes and intersting post!

Posted by: Matt Welsh at April 30, 2006 10:03 AM

Inquiring Minds wanna KNOW Marek,, how many years will it take, you attending law school, start to finish; before you are a full-fledged lawyer? 6 years? eeeeek and a shudder - more? And, in that time-frame, how many ways will you have learned to cook cherry-pie? (wink!)

North

Posted by: North at April 30, 2006 08:34 PM

I too, echo Patzi Raven's sentiments Marek; you indeed, give rise to smile, in our hearts; to let down the baggage responsibility of the day.

a rare quality you have, Marek; and now I wish I had always stayed a lost-girl in wonderland...(smiles.)but, I got old like Wendy...

North

Posted by: North at April 30, 2006 08:41 PM

Lawyer in the Dutch country? my fanny! North,
They can stick those 1500 Euro's a month, and an
additional three years post-doctoral where...you know ;)

I got some fun new venture projects, to be explored, in Poland, because, just like Will Smith
I'm a family man, but in case no fresh baked pie on Christmas Eve, meaning this Love thing..and me doing my 'adventure conditioning' in East Europe,
or South America, screw the Dutch IRS! (just kiddin..maybe..;)

Reminds me of a Will Smith song..

Chasin forever, a buckwild, endeavorous scene
Should we pursue with somethin real or just chasin a dream
Or casin' the scene
Fore I die I plan
To see your soul and eternity in the palm of my hands
Now as a man, there's certain things I'm lackin for sure
But I'm committed to growin and coming at you mature
In the future, I know it ain't gonna be all good
But when we feelin the hurt, if we willin to work
The eight ball will never turn to see us behind
Though I ain't no knight, and my armor don't shine
My mom said the lynch pin of love is trust
An taught me monogomy is uh, monogamous
Plus, for you dinner by candlelight
Now don't commit before you sure you understand me right
It's a race to a strange place, most see never
It's a chase we gotta make together, forever
Chorus
Verse 3: Will Smith
Now you would think after all my heartbreaks I'd be cruel
Hiding behind my ego, evil but no
Much the contrary, I'm very much certain
You searchin for joy, it's on the other side of hurtin
Finally found a person, worthy of all
Instead of pushin me down, you wanna cushion my fall
Your eyes could make the sun rise, all the birds sing
Seal it with a kiss, bind it with a ring
More carrats than even bugs could eat in a week
An the ribbon in the sky, close your eyes don't peek
I'll tell you what I see in the future
A hacienda so cute with, five little kids callin you mom and callin me
dad
Havin more good times than JJ had
Judging by the look in your eyes, you see it
Let no man sever, welcome to forever
Chorus to fade

Love, Passion!

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 1, 2006 03:46 AM

'..To see your soul and eternity in the palm of your hands..'

Hey Matt, I think Will Smith answered, that incarnation question, or as Deepak would put it;

'The universe is an all at once phenomenea'

Right?
I do believe, Matt, that reading, you too, being a big fan of Dr. Wayne Dyer's, we by now honestly can say; we're longgone past 'tribal conditiong'!, statistical speaking, offcourse..;)

Anyhow, how are you doing, with that 'lady' phenomenae?

What is a good woman in your mind?

Love, Passion!


Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 1, 2006 03:58 AM

Viper: Top Gun rules of engagement are written for your safety and for that of your team. They are not flexible, nor am I. Is that clear?

Goose: No. No, Mav, this is not a good idea.
Maverick: Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz a tower.

Matt, you may be my wingman!,
we gonna do a fly-by on the tower!;
the girl, if she reads this, can press legal charges for cyber stalking...(or can she...;)

http://disney.go.com/princess/html/main_iframe.html

Just kiddin'..maybe..

But what do you think about 1001 nights..
those Arabian Dreams..

just,
Love, Passion!

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 1, 2006 04:17 AM

We're untouchable, Matt, no worries!
I got your back,
(but the girl sure got Spammed)
(the only question remaining..did she loose that loving feeling..;)

To be continued, or not..you just never know with
women, Matt, I'm serious!

Love, PASSION!

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 1, 2006 04:23 AM

;)

Posted by: aladdinwiththemagiccarpet@gmail.com at May 1, 2006 04:27 AM

Marek - I like your style. Are you going to go back to Poland or have you made the netherlands your home forever?

Posted by: Divya at May 1, 2006 07:43 AM

Polish (or is it Dutch now?) Commentator Extraordinaire! Have fun :)

Cheers!
Navin

Posted by: Navin at May 1, 2006 08:12 AM

Marek...
hmmm....no comments...please..

Forget the turkish pie, and get ready for some fresh, nice, juicy polish pie...

what do you say???

Your buddy,

Cezary

Posted by: Cezary at May 1, 2006 11:33 AM

Marek, perfect Will Smith tune; I have his Men in Black CD. Haven't heard his newest one, seldom listen to radio for new-tunes out there, I like my old CD's, jazz and blues, some mix's, and enjoy listening to Kavita's CD..transports me to another place, it's so magical..love the citar!

Always have a song ready in your heart Marek; it will get you everywhere with people better than a point will(wink); I haven't mastered this joyfullness yet, but I think you did, at a very young age.

North

Posted by: North at May 1, 2006 05:08 PM

Marek,

Just glad to see you read books by more than one author.

Aye, to be young again...enjoy being single,

long as you can, my ex just arrived to see the kids,

last 2 months she's been in jail, so excuse my mood!

Posted by: Keith Watson at May 1, 2006 05:48 PM

Marek - I don't understand half of what you write ;-) but like everyone else here, I think you are absolutely adorable and I love you to pieces.

I loved the blog. Vintage Marek.

Please don't ever change.

much love, Jodi

Posted by: Sheba/Jodi at May 1, 2006 09:57 PM

Keith..2 months jail..?
man..you got worse Karma with females than I..
respect!
LOL,
Sheba, I just try to seranade me some pie, while I'm uphere..;) girls love that kind of thing..;)

reminds me of a song..;)
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/c/color+me+badd/all+4+love_20032897.html

North, Donna, sweetheart, love you girl!

Cezary, my man,
Let me tell you in on a little secret about women.. no ring around their finger?, or a pie in the oven?, than it's good will hunting!, for all,
call it your human right, ask your grandpa..;)

Love, Passion!

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 2, 2006 03:28 AM

hey marek!!! Good luck with your future wives! Kamila

Posted by: kamila at May 2, 2006 05:44 AM

You are a pleasure, to the Spirit, Marek!

North

Posted by: North at May 2, 2006 06:28 AM

You melt my heart, Donna..North..
If only all the girls, were just like you!
Hug,
Love, Passion!!
Hey Kamila, easier said than done..;)
We are not in Poland here! ;)

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 2, 2006 07:25 AM

Marek... all girls do get this sweet, by the time they reach MY age!

we consider it a form of "fermentation" by-product of sugary-sweet compliments from young handsome men all our lives!(smiles.)

Think, pink!

Pink, is a symbol-colour of strength(wink.)

Much love, & Namaste

North

Posted by: North at May 2, 2006 07:39 AM

Marek: Why am I not surprised at how much the women love you?

Could it possibly be that it is due to the boundless love and attraction you feel for the female species?

I whole-heartedly concur that this "most-beloved" species is worth everything to traverse all dimensions, and repeatedly incarnate into this school, just for the impeccable grandeur that comes from joining in with the company of these "most-divine" creatures in all the Universe! Dave

Posted by: David at May 2, 2006 07:46 AM

David..Marek may be the King of Sweet; but, you are, without a doubt, the first Prince! Patzi is a lucky lady...

well, I'm off for the day, spring-clean-up week! This means, we can throw out all our accumulated annual junk, and no longer desirable furnishings and what-nots!

WE tossed an old dresser and TV unit last night; and his weight-bench tonight(needs paint/padding)and it was taken in the night. My old cow-girl grey, snake-skin hat, gently placed on the pile. Somebody else found the treasure, and claimed it.

I find myself filled with giggles and smiles; as I throw out my junk; it becomes another's treasure! Be it for costumes, or for them to sell at a yard-sale; who cares?

I have unloaded the over-load, to someone else's delight! lol

I prepare for the empty-nest - much, much will be tossed! WE decided not to have a yard-sale, and make a few needed dollars. Instead, we will enrich some lives by giving it away.. my sis is letting me get my son a suit/shoes on her Sears! God Bless her! there goes one major, frickin' worry! whew and a sighhhhhhhH

my son missed the honour roll by only 5 marks!! Can I go beat up the teacher for this short slight? ahahhahah

All, as it should be.

OH< and Marek? My son's gal/date is also graduating; and wearing PINK! SO, my son will wear either a pink shirt, black suit, silver tie OR, black suit, silver shirt, pink tie and boutineire?(typo, sue me!)

any ideas how my young son, should decor his suit/shirt/tie, to match the girl's dress? (proud, Mama smile)

What do I get/give him for a graduation gift? money? cufflinks? do they still make shirts for cufflinks?

ideas please...

North

Posted by: North at May 2, 2006 08:19 AM

Zo eh das weer een "Bell-levensverhaal-air" story.
De gleufjes zullen het wel leuk vinden als ik het zo lees. Van het weekend is Bianca jarig dus als je zin hebt in een feestje, dan hoor ik het wel.
Met de erbarmelijke groeten,
Brian

Posted by: brian at May 2, 2006 08:21 AM

North: Give him three things: 1. A portfolio of your most creative "images." 2. As much $ as you can safely afford to stuff in his pocket. 3. And most importantly, the longest and best hug he'll tolerate receiving--it is #'s 1 & 3, however, that he'll remember beyond even this lifetime--he can "borrow" a pair of cuff-links from one of his roomates at college, if he needs them (or go to a pawn shop!). Dave

Posted by: David at May 2, 2006 08:48 AM

North: I'm sorry about the cuff-links suggestion; I know this is important to you--I'd ask his girlfriend about the shirt, etc.--although Marek can undoubtedly give you some sound advice on dressing well, also. Dave

Posted by: David at May 2, 2006 08:56 AM

Hi David, I just don't know how to gift him, other than the motherly long hug, byebye..it seems not enough... as for cash, what is that? it is never in my hand long enough to give me an inkling of what it feels like to hold, longer than a few moments or hours, days if nothing drastic comes UP!

As for the cuff-links suggestion? No harm, no foul..I live poor, I am poor, I am not sensitive to it(wink.)

North

Posted by: North at May 2, 2006 09:57 AM

I'm baaaaaaaCK! lol

While I was in the back room, and with a relentless pursuit of junk in mind and hand, in each pocket, slung across this shoulder, my strained neck; I reach for the porch. I hear big trucks. I hear a tractor! I hear the voices of men.

By the time, I peeled layers of junk from my bones, scraping my wardrobe, leaving skid marks on my arm(cat-scratchies), I race for the door. By the time, I run down(snail-pace run) the 25 stairs that keep me often, exiled upstairs; it was too late.

I stood there, naked in my skinned, skin; bones aching, panting breathlessly,,,and waved goodbye to the four men walking beside, and behind the tractor, the big truck.

Thankyou I said, as they made off down the street; finding the corner, good to go for traffic, and around the corner they all went, like a marching spring band, picking up everyone's toss-outs..

except the rest of mine.

Ooh, drama, drama... (silly grins)

North

Posted by: North at May 2, 2006 10:55 AM

Hey Marek,

I just wanted to let you know too, that I've always liked your style of writing on here and I usually look up a lot of the links you provide. I'm frequently looking into Wayne Dyer's or Neale's stuff so it's interesting to me that we're reading the same things...

You're a nice looking guy and you seem to know what's up and I think the world would be a better place if there were more like you. ;)

Posted by: Tiffany at May 2, 2006 02:51 PM

Tiffany, what'ya think? Poland beach's that look like California? or, Toronto?(smiles.)

North

Posted by: North at May 2, 2006 06:46 PM

LOL, guys, great stuff,
nice to start a day with a smile,
I see my Dutch buddy, from elementary school, left
a comment..in Dutch..he was the one who introduced the timeless wisdom: 'dude, for every jar, there is a lid that fits'!

North, I bet your son will stun the starlights out of his date, and make all the other girls..;)

As for the cufflinks..this will make a big..;)
http://store.playboy.com/detail-273-PRODUCT-15-4-12-273.html

just kiddin'! don't get the wrong idea..;)

Heya Tiffany, yes, for me it always was, just before, something major disturbing happened in my life, Wayne, Louise, Tony, Deepak or Neale, got 'manifested', and make a Polish smurf less blue..;)..must be..;)

Love, Passion!
North, give him a subscription to man's health, magazine, will make his girl pretty happy, if he can keep, his undoubtebly stunning looks, abs like rocks and..;)

Matt, hopeless mission we have flown, in the Arabian galaxy, Aladin magic mailbox is still empty, but so is the non-virtual, with that anti-stalking ;) just kidding! but, no guts, no glory!





Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 3, 2006 03:44 AM

Thanks Marek; playboy huh? I'll let my son look(smiles)

he's got the rock-abs for sure! he's an avid one for keeping shape, and works on those abs nightly.

thank for the suggestion, much appreciated. We looked through some catalogues last night for ideas.. black suit, pink shirt, black tie.

North

Posted by: North at May 3, 2006 04:49 AM

great,
but.. black/pink? on a graduation ceremony? on a guy.. you guys have fun customs on a graduation, ;)

Last graduation, I attended in Rotterdam was..
heck, have a look for yourself.. yes, I know that tie is pink ;) dude's name Marcin, hometown Wroclaw,

http://erasmusimprezki.blogspot.com/

Love, Passion!

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 3, 2006 06:26 AM

Geez Marek; did you have to send me to a blog, with so many pics of handsome men gracing the page?(giggles.)

I saw the men in their grad suits. Awesome pics to go by. Gorgeous girls too(oh, to be young again!)

my son's chick looks very much like the gal with the cheese cake? wearing a shirt saying: chase me..amazing!

I am catalogued to death! I looked at watch's. yeah right! unbelievable prices - for a %#%$^@%$ watch? He's hard on watch's and I stopped buying him watch's 3 years ago! but, he needs one for college, so going to stand on a corner today(just kidding!!!)

thanks for your help Marek : )

North

Posted by: North at May 3, 2006 06:38 AM

Hi Marek,

Just want you to know I've checked your Post and it looks like you're pretty popular. And that for a Polish student living in Rotterdam, not bad!

Keep up the good work and start graduating ;-)

Cheers,

Hung

Posted by: Hung at May 3, 2006 03:13 PM

Marek,

Just how do I get Peter Pan off of the roof of my mouth?

Hope you've had fun being so popular these days!

You are the man to ask? Can we get into trouble

spilling our guts here? I mean REAL trouble...they

can't arrest you for what's in your memory banks,

can they?

Come level with us, get even, and we'll ride

a see-saw! Keith

Posted by: Keith Watson at May 3, 2006 04:17 PM

LOL,
Hung, first, you've shoulda put a link up., good PR, no worries buddy, ;)http://www2.eur.nl/studeren/erasmuscle/welcome.html
www.erasmuscle.nl
We have to catch up a bit, dude, been a while, that philosophy study sure is nice, but with 24h in a day, and some 'facinating' (legal) 'phenomeae' in 2004, 5 and 6, 'occuring' we had to re-arrange some priorities, i'll 'enlight' you some other time, be doing my
philosophizing, in Poland, soon, hopefully, if I ever get out of that Dutch country..reminds me..

girls, applepie and this thing called..
no not Karl's Popper's.. Quantum theories..;)
Love, Passion!


Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 4, 2006 03:16 AM

Keith,
this one chick..euh lady, of 1001.. one wish to far..
even for Aladin and a magic carpet..

Desires, wishes, dreams and fullfillment..

Where's the magic lamp when you need one ;)
but then again..you can drag a horse to the water,
but you can't make a women drink..

no kiddin'! Keith, ;)
Capricorns, stay away!, ;)

Love, Passion!

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 4, 2006 03:26 AM

Love, Scorpio, Week of May 1, 2006
This is not an easy time for you in the love department, and as a result, it is easy to get depressed and discouraged when it comes to your romantic relationship - or lack thereof. The good news is that this week offers a couple bright points that help remind you that not all hope is lost. Don't give up. Don't lose hope, and above all, don't lose confidence in yourself and your ability to manifest the perfect relationship with your true soul mate. Monday and Tuesday are two of the strongest days for you. Although these days may feel extra emotional and moody, it is during these days that you will be most in touch with your emotions. You will be perfectly clear and confident with regard to who you are and what you want. It is extra important that you trust your powerful instincts during these days. Your intuitive senses will be stronger than ever.

Things, that make you go..mhhnn..

Love, Passion!

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 4, 2006 04:29 AM

Gosh Marek; I thought for sure your horoscope would be laced with delicious exciting events!!

All the best, with the "girl."

North

Posted by: North at May 4, 2006 06:10 AM

'delicious exciting events'
Well..Donna,
A Polish Smurf is easely satisfied..;)
We did had a breakthrough today with one of the cases, what a difference, a couple of mails can do to the president of the local bar association.., mhmnnn..Jammie!, the magic of dilligence and diciplinary..;)

But in this field on the Laws of Love?
I would like to appeal, but..
ah, plenty of orbits round the sun left,
must be a Dharma thing..

Love, Passion!

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 4, 2006 06:36 AM

Hey, Marek!!!!
Here my advertising message for you....
" Attention, attention: all girls who are interested in a charming lover; Marek is the one you got to have!! He belongs to one of the most romantic, spiritual and funny people in Holland. Always something to talk about with Marek, never boring and thanks to Deepra Chopak (no idea how to write that name) very interested in karma's and darma's and shit like that. Besides he has a well muscled body and a high IQ, so; brains and beauty in one person!!! What else do you want, girls???"
Hope this will work, Marek.....

Ciao, Monica

Posted by: monica at May 4, 2006 08:35 AM

HI Marek..hey! congrats on cracking the case! only a sleuth with "passion" could do that; and of course, you are the man! : ) totally uplifting huh?

Hi Monica, we all found out a while back now, just what a sweetie Marek is.. alas, I"m too old myself, and can only drool over his resume and handsome smile(blush.)

But, it was Marek's joyful presence/essence, which has captured all of us at Intent with his dazzling wit and charm; before we even knew what he looked like! me included.

Thanks for his ad though; gonna show it to some friends of some friends, of some friends of mine(smiles)

Donna/North

Posted by: North at May 4, 2006 11:30 AM

LOL,
Monica, girl, love ya, hug, buzi, smack!,

remind me, to tip you,
but...

Please, don't do me any favors..,
girls, people..por favor! ;)

Love, Passion!
Ps. pass that word to your girlfriends too! ;)

Where was I?
yes, the stars..

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 4, 2006 11:38 AM

Marek, I was going to tell you I sang that song in a grade school play! but, I thought you'd make me sing it for you and all, and I forget the lines!(age thing?)and I can't tap-dance no more(giggles)

Keep your eyes on the stars Marek; God is sending you an angel-pie-dumpling one day!

OH< Marek? not sure if you know this; but, getting a kudo's from Patzi Raven; is a treat(wink!)

Patzi is a 5-times author! Her book, - Behind the Stained-Glass Window is a huge hit; and maybe a movie is in the works on it?

I am currently reading it slowly. You should get it!! it's wonderfully written, and takes you to another time and place.. a mission of any story,, yes?

Patzi is currently writing her 5th novel, of which I have the honour of having already designed the cover for her; with additions to add to it later when her book is completed. : )

www.patziraven.com/

Donna/North

Posted by: North at May 4, 2006 12:06 PM

Marek,

This horny girl Monica wants u!

Whoahahahaahha...!

Posted by: Diablo at May 4, 2006 04:30 PM

Marek, you are 2 days, MIA-where are you?

North/Donna

Posted by: North at May 6, 2006 07:08 AM

..The only danger remaining is that the entire material world may dissolve and become a dream, with no reason left to participate in it. (To be continued)..'

girls, girls, girls...;)
(To be continued)..

Love, Passion!
Ps. what's yours Simon?

Hi Marek,

how goes it Buddy?

I just read your post, was not sure if it was addressed for me.

My Passion is The moment.

Love Simon xx

Posted by: simon_freejohn at May 6, 2006 07:53 AM

Hehe Marek,

you become famous out here....Once you get 500 nice chicks all with long legs and big blue eyes, don't forget to share them with your friends....especially the one called Marcin

Posted by: Marcin P. at May 6, 2006 10:51 AM

Somebody forgot Marek at the pub!

Posted by: MIA at May 6, 2006 05:58 PM

A lot of you here have not seen Marek in person and may only guess what kind of person he is. Well I can help you with that although after reading his words I think that you have a pretty good idea yourself. When I first met him he helped me a lot with my loneliness and I was thinking to myself whether it is possible that some guy can be so sweet to a stranger like me and let me tell you guys that after knowing him for almost a year now I can tell you that he is even sweeter than it seemed at first. He is amazingly positive person and even if you are in a very very very bad mood and you think that life cannot go any worse then my medicine for that is Marek. Being in his company for some time and I find myself laughing again. And look at his pictures on http://lostboysfromneverland.blogspot.com. Isn’t he cute???? Oh yes he is. I know what you girls think…but let me tell you that he is not all perfect. He has his own bad sides (well who hasn’t) but I haven’t found any extremely bad ones but I haven’t stopped searching.

Sorry Marek if I revealed too much but I felt that it is my opportunity to thank you for everything you have done for me. Thank you!!!!

It is said that nothing great in the world has been accomplished without passion and Marek has this passion for Poland and for eastern european girls. Can you imagine what will happen if he connects those 2 passions? It will be something so great that there are no words to describe that, something that I have never seen. So go for it Marek, let it happen for you, to you and because of you!!!


Posted by: Jana at May 8, 2006 02:07 PM

LOL, not the dishes..again..;)
Men are pigs! can I help it?
and yes I get grumphy at times, but that's only because I have to deal with Dutch legal Mega- Ego's,

I need some home-made applepie!

But you sure made my day, Jana,
thank you for taking the time,

I'll bake you something, something..jammie!

Love, Passion!
Put your Paris pictures on a blog, dear, I'm sure
the world..wouldn't mind to see a princess in
..land..?

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at May 9, 2006 07:22 AM

Post a comment

http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/09/invisible_neuro.html#comments

Invisible Neurology: "Why does pain hurt?"
posted by Deepak Chopra on September 20, 2005 at 02:50 PM

I wanted to take up a simple but mystifying question recently posed by one responder, Richard Thomas: Why does pain hurt?
? He points to the fact that brain activity consists only of electromagnetic and chemical reactions. Why do these harmless events, the same kind occurring in a compass, electrical turbine, or test tube, register as something that hurts?

Or to pose the larger question: How does the raw data of the universe get transformed by the brain into a world full of sights and sounds? To answer this question, we have to go beyond current explanations in neurology to an invisible level, but that isn't the same as saying we are off to the land of mystical reveries.

In every Eastern tradition there is some version of the "subtle body," which parallels the nervous system. Because they didn't practice neurology, the ancient sages of China and India couldn't see nerves, so they conducted their research subjectively. Looking at the body from a deep state of awareness, they saw myriad channels of consciousness or life force coursing everywhere, connecting every part of the anatomy, animating every tissue. To them, there was no hard distinction between life force (Chi or Prana) and consciousness. Where one flowed, so did the other.

This invisible neurology answered the question of why pain hurts very easily: If everything is conscious at a deep level, then there is no "raw" or unconscious data. The transformation of neural impulses into thoughts and sensations was just a twist from object to subject. Consciousness penetrates both observer and observed.

In modern science, neurology has not come close to supplying an equivalent answer, because in its denial of subjectivity and its reliance only on observable brain activity, neurology provides no interface between the two domains of subject and object. Fixed between the molecules of glucose that nourish the brain and the thought storm that fills it is an impassable gulf.

It is certainly true that we know how the nerves conduct pain signals. We can break these signals down into chemical and electrical components. We can trace where the signals go to be processed in the brain. None of this specificity goes to the level of the question, however. In what way does any chemical turn into a subjective event?

Let me give an analogy: If a car runs into a telephone pole, the explanation for what happened can be material. A mechanic can analyze exactly how the moving parts of the car operated. A neurologist perhaps one day could analyze all the processes operating in the motor cortex. If the accident was due to a mechanical cause--such as a faulty steering system or alcohol in the brain--all is well and good. But in this case perhaps the driver wanted to commit suicide. He had a subjective intention, and no amount of analysis of chemicals and material parts supplies that answer. You'd have to know what was going on at the level of mind, not the level of brain.

This is one area where we have the best chance of bringing consciousness into science, because the invisible neurology that underlies acupuncture and Ayurveda--not to mention many forms of hands-on healing--produces results. This is demonstrable, and now we have several decades of evidence (I have covered this vast field more thoroughly in various books, but so have hundreds of other writers and qualified practitioners).

An acupuncture needle is used to penetrate and stimulate the subtle body. Current explanations that deny the subtle body speak instead about nerve gateways and other physical phenomena. This would not bother the ancient sages; they were not out to replace objectivity with subjectivity but to marry the two. The subtle nerves in Ayurveda, known as srotas, are physical nerves at the material level, just as the physical heart is a material expression of an emotional and energy center located in the middle of the chest.

If this notion of a subtle body makes more inroads into Western thinking, there are huge implications for genetics and the whole field of mind and body. But for the moment, realizing that this is a foreign concept--and therefore one open to the usual scorn and skepticism, one awaits the slow tide of evidence to continue to rise.

Love,
Deepak
Comments
Love creates the world
Why then a world of pain?
Addiction to thought
What causes suffering?
Not realizing who we are
We're not this body
Posted by: Bob Fisher at September 20, 2005 03:07 PM
Hi Deepak,
Good timing, as I just returned from Bob Duggen who said it is ok to tell all on this site (lately) "to just be peaceful"! As he (my accupuncturist) and I talked about chronic pain today and the power of one to try and deal with this pain ourselves.....and to "breathe".
Something as little as wearing my watch on my other hand sort of changes the "thinking" for me to relax and slow down. Sot of like, breaking the cycle of pain to non-pain.
Thank you for your timely post!
Love, Joanie
Posted by: Joanie at September 20, 2005 03:21 PM
"I said to the Maharshi that a certain appointment I had was a waste of time. He smiled.

M: There is no time. How can you waste it?"
Paul Brunton

.....there is no pain, how can you feel it
You have answered the question.
Thank you, Deepak
Posted by: K at September 20, 2005 03:21 PM
Thank you Deepak, as you are brilliant!
Lately, I have been wondering and pondering upon how words are able to cause physical pain and/or pleasure and this pretty much explains what I was trying to understand. I believe that our subtle energy easily transfers via words from one object or person to another, as well as many other forms of transfer such as thought, etc. I would suppose one object would need to be somewhat open to another object in order to be able to send and receive, however, I think we all do this whether we are aware of it or not. So, I guess, if one wants to block, they can, as well as receiving while monitoring how much to give and take? …. I guess???????
Love,
Char
Posted by: char at September 20, 2005 03:26 PM
Hello Deepak and everyone,
I wish more medical doctors were open to this concept of subtle body. I was introduced to Chi Kung (Qigong) a few months back, a practice of which there are three aspects - form, energy and mind. The form is only exercise if you are not in a meditative state of mind to direct the chi. I've noticed in myself considerable improvement over time in entering this state and feeling the chi. I recently had a Dr.'s appointment and when asked about stress I told her I practice Chi Kung which is like the more familiar Tai Chi. She makes a joke about it, saying she drinks chi tea. I think about how many patients she could be helping if only she had asked me to elaborate instead.
Posted by: Kristie at September 20, 2005 05:17 PM
DEEPAK:
I have continued to follow your blogs and have decided at the same time to listen rather than "preach" as I feel I have more to learn then to give at the present time.
Because I've gotten a little lost here I'm asking as opposed to challenging.
"This invisible neurology answered the question of why pain hurts very easily: If everything is conscious at a deep level, then there is no "raw" or unconscious data. The transformation of neural impulses into thoughts and sensations was just a twist from object to subject. Consciousness penetrates both observer and observed."
How exactly is the question answered? Or what is the answer? WHat is this "twist" from object to subject?
Respectfully,
Fool
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 05:54 PM
The question being "Why does pain hurt?"
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 05:55 PM
Thank you so much Deepak, what a major scientific revelation and breakthrough. I had to ponder it a while, whenever I think about subjectivity and objectivity I fall into some kind of recursive thought process.
It explains why I could not comprehend why pain hurts because of physical science and the faulty perception it has taught.
Pain is actually a fact, (and science likes facts) perhaps it the the fact that some cells are inflamed. So why this fact hurt and 2 + 2 = 4 does does not? Why does excruciating pain illicit any response at all?
The reason and the point that you are making (I think), is that the subject and object are one in the same. The observer and the observed are one and the same, there is no gap.
If this was not true it would be impossible to "feel" pain. If the observer and observed were separate then you would simply just know the pain and you could just consider to react to it or not.
Still I think it is ultimately information, yet our reaction to this information is different.
It get even more interesting because I remember reading some recent research and I forget the creature. I think it was a slug. What they found that in response to pain “a sharp object” the nerve signals did travel back to the central nervous system of the slug. The cells themselves elicited and intelligent collective response and this must demonstrate and provide proof of cellular intelligence. Which as you were saying consciousness is all pervading? Such that in order for cells to do something intelligent they must have cognition and consciousness.
Doesn’t this mean that this implies that “cells are conscious” is a scientifically qualified fact? Remember the whole feedback response mechanism occurred separate from the central nervous system.
So haven’t we provided valid scientific proof of two things that conventional orthodox scientific thinking denies? Or not?
What would be behind this denial? Could it be the Ego?

Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 20, 2005 06:05 PM
That was supposed to be in the case of the slug the pain signals DO NOT travel back to the slugs central nervous system. So the higher brain could not intitiate the intelligent response.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 20, 2005 06:09 PM
I wrote a short article about a year ago after hearing some researchers talking about studying disease in dogs. I was perturbed because they were not studying why dogs don't have cardiovascular disease which would result in much greater benefits.
So any way they mentioned that dogs all came from the wolf and this was over about 10,000 years. So I thought wait a minute. No other species on the planet has achieved this great a genetic variation in such a short time. What is different about this species? Man’s best friend. This species has been hanging out with the most intelligent species on the planet for 10,000 years unlike most the other species. Therefore intelligence must play a role in genetic modification.
I wanted to ask how many genetic random "mutations" had to occur to produce this multitude of variations. What is the mathematical probability of these mutations occurring randomly or even by selection? I think we would find the odds astronomical and as such there could only be one implication they were not random but by design.
>>>
I would go as far as to say the genetic base has a multitude of switches that can be turned on or off resulting in major changes in design and functionality of the unit or better yet machine that plays host to consciousness, and these are initiated by intelligence of which consciousness is not separate but required.

Oh and thanks to my Father who asked the question that led me to find the answer in Linus Pauling’s research (he asked the same question as my father and had the means to find out), we know that the build up of plaque is not a life taker but a life saver. It is the bodies attempt to patch your arteries so that they don’t break when they get hard and crack. So now some of the smart ones are thinking, but wait a second, if I take anti-cholesterol drugs won’t that impair the patching process? Am I not fighting against my body by taking anti-cholesterol drugs? Yes. The correct approach is to re-establish the elasticity in your arterial walls.
Oh and the question that my father asked the doctor, who did not know the answer which led me to research and find it out what it was.
Why does the arterial build up only occur in certain places? Well the first obvious answer is these are the places of the most mechanical stress which any bridge engineer will tell you this is wear the cracks appear first. Linus Pauling discovered that when these cracks appear the cholesterol specifically for that purpose sticks to them forming a patch.
Isn’t the human body the most intelligent machine you have ever come across?
~Richard Thomas
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 20, 2005 06:44 PM
Ok now you got me thinking Richard.
Like you I have thought about pain and pleasure for many years.
Just some random thoughts. I hope some may be beneficial.
I don't know much about Biology anymore. I used to but I turned my back on many things years ago. I'll try to make sense here.
If I take a needle and puncture my hand a signal travels along a nerve path to some place in my "higher brain". Maybe a pain center.
Then a signal travels back to the area where the needle punctured my hand. I feel a burning sensation and say, "owww!!".
Am I really feeling the pain in my hand or is it in the "higher brain"? I really don't know.
When I was young a group of us young children were around the neighborhood playing. A little girl fell and cut her knee pretty bad. It was bleeding quite profusely. She did not know and was just laughing and talking. Someone pointed out that her knee was bleeding and when she looked down she gave out a hell of a scream and burst into tears. I have always remembered that and applied it to my own daughter.
My daughter is now 7 and unless it's a very bad fall and I mean bad she doesn't even cry. From birth my wife and I decided that instead of "feeding" the traumatic circumstances we immediately engage our daughter in a conversation regarding the facts around the event. Describing the sensation (location, size, color, shape, sharp/dull, etc.). Describing the event rather then playing into the drama.
I have always stated that I have a high tolerance to pain (which I do). I once put a cigarette out on the back of my hand because this guy just wouldn't stop trying to sell me an oil well. (I know a very dumb thing to do). The point is I was able to block the pain. I bring this up because you mention "knowing" the pain and being able to choose whether to react or not. Now when I look back at all the times I have experienced excruciating pain (almost cut off my fingers 4 separate times by accident) and did not react in the manor I thought one would I considered (past tense) that to be having the choice to react or not. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe I was reacting but gritting my teeth so hard I was blocking or denying the pain. Maybe that was a choice-less reaction. I'm not really sure.
The three or so times I have experience a true separation and release from the "sensation" of pain was when I sat several ten day courses of meditation. 10 hours and about 45 minutes a day with breaks (thank god). It was requested that three one hour sittings each day be sat perfectly still with zero movement.
Dude I never knew that not moving could illicit such pain. At one point in the first 10 day course I thought my leg was on fire and my bone was going to snap. At some point I remember thinking that there wasn't even a flame being held to my leg. And the pressure needed to "snap" my leg was nowhere to be found. That was on day 5. I'm not sure if it was that realization or something else but on day seven the pain vanished. Actually I remember what it was. Some how I was able to detach completely from the sensation and just observe it and it became warm and kinda felt good.
Last thought. When I used to read about eastern philosophy/religion/psychology I used to get all granola and gushy inside about concepts such as "nirvana" and "karma". In retrospect I was filtering these concepts through my catholic filter (heaven and sin).
I'd hang around with people that weren't aspiring to any kind of "higher" consciousness but we all liked to hag out, get high and "talk the talk".
Then I spent 6 months wandering around India. For anyone that's been I won't have to go into details concerning the spiritual experience.
When I got back to Switzerland and one of my neo-hippie friends would mention "karma" as though god was going to come down and hand out a get out of jail free card, I would respond, "When you drop a rock on your foot, it hurts. That's karma."
Fool
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 07:22 PM
But wait. I still want to know.
Why does pain hurt?
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 07:24 PM
RICHARD:
Do modern day wolfs also have no cardiovascular desease?
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 07:30 PM
Perhaps I am not smart enough to understand this. But, if everthing is conscious then how can we block pain by local anaesthetic? Is'nt the observer right there in the brain?
Humbly,
Morris
Posted by: Morris at September 20, 2005 07:33 PM
Well everyone certainly posted food for thought. Why do pain killers work? Do they block the flow of information or conscious awareness?
I have tried the same thing where I look at the pain signal as just information and it seems to work. Then again I have had a headache before that that did not seem to do much good.
I think there is more evidence of the influence of consciousness. That is if pain is inflicted. I think it is much worse for some reason. Also as fool mentioned the way we perceive pain has some relevance.
Then there are those that use pain to get attention, then there are those that self inflict pain to release endorphins.
If endorphins are released in response to pain or injury what does that imply as the "consciousness" response?
Then there are the Enkephalins and Endorphins are own natural opiates legally manufactured in the body how do these play a role.
Perhaps Deepak has some comments.
By the way the solution to much of the worlds drug problem is the elimination of a certain condition suffered by at least 80% of the population, at least this is the solution I am putting forth.
There is an enzyme that breaks down enkephalins and endorphins in 80% of the population there is an excess of this enzyme so these people do not get the benefits of the endorphins and enkephalins.
So yes, I figured out how to decrease these levels of these enzymes and the stuff that does it cannot be patented. So I am wondering if the will try to outlaw the human bodies own opiate manufacturing facilities.
If everyone felt good it might bring peace and the military industrial complex might not like that.
Curious as to what they are? You will just have to watch http://InfinitePlayTheMovie.com

~Richard Thomas > gifts waiting the world just needs to ask
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 20, 2005 08:09 PM
RICHARD:
With the headache thing. I noticed that I can't seem to do anything about my headache when I am feeling over run. Just to tired. This state is much like the state I feel when I have absolutely nothing to do and I actually feel energized and have the thought, "now would be a good time to meditate." And then all of a sudden I feel tired. Sometimes I actually fall asleep rather than meditate.
Although I am not an expert on Buddhism I believe the Buddha called this overwhelming tiredness one of our "enemies". Christians call it sloth. But what I'm getting at is I certainly see more of the "consciousness" line that Deepak is referring t as opposed to a purely mechanical explanation.
Some how this is "tiredness" is a part of the "conceptual filters" that Ravi refers to attempting to support the illusion that I am other then the whole. I can't possibly do anything about a headache. I am to tired to meditate.
MORRIS:
As far as "the laws of consciousness" go, maybe because we believe the anesthetic works. Maybe because the anesthetic is a part of the consciousness as well as everything else between the anesthetic and the pain the anesthetic works. I think we all know people that go to the dentist and refuse any anesthetic. Argh!! I don't like pain or my own endorphins that much.
Ok now I'm loosing myself a bit here.
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 08:37 PM
Laurence,
Could be Mycroplasmas which are the smallest, free-living infectious agents. They are distinct from viruses because of their ability to grow in cell-free media and from bacteria because they lack a cell wall and the ability to synthesize cell wall precursors. A variety of plant and animal diseases are caused by the mycoplasmas. However, only certain types have been clearly shown to cause disease in humans. Ask your Doctor about them and you will get a blank look due to impaired information flow in the industry. They may be what is behind chronic fatigue and magnesium deficiency might also be related. If it's not something like that then..
Also interesting is that is could be the imbalance that occurs after a period of brain cell use, with brain cell sodium and potassium ratios. Guess what resets the ratio’s, when the brain achieves theta dominant brainwaves. Which occurs in very deep meditation and during the sleep process or using binaural beat audio technology.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 20, 2005 09:21 PM
DEEPAK:
I just went to Richard's site in regards to "Infinite Play" the movie. I have a Mac using Firefox so had some trouble getting to it but I did. He spoke about something and I don't no where else to bring it up. I'm hoping you might consider it in a future blog.
He speaks about games. Infinite and finite. He mentions that finite games have a winner and losers. Infinite games do not.
What strikes me and bothers me is that I have been going to my 7 year old daughters school as a parent a few times in the past two years. Although I played American football when I was young and was so competitive that it still "haunts" me to this day I am horrified whenever I see the children at my daughters school participate in competition on almost every level. Even academic. It's so heartbreaking to see the faces of the children that "loose". We as adults are numb to the devastation it causes. We almost can't remember what it is like. I am so adamant about this that I feel like approaching the faculty and asking that they suspend all competitive activity only I feel like I am being to sensitive and would be looked at like I was crazy. I would love to pull her out of that environment but my wife and the law make it almost impossible. I don't want any responses to this here as this blog is about pain. But something in what Richard was saying in his site brought up an emotional pain concerning this and I just needed to air it. I hope you open up the space to discuss this in your own enlightened way in some future blog. As corny as this has always sounded to me, now that I am a father I see that the children are the future.
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 09:21 PM
DEEPAK:
I just went to Richard's site in regards to "Infinite Play" the movie. I have a Mac using Firefox so had some trouble getting to it but I did. He spoke about something and I don't no where else to bring it up. I'm hoping you might consider it in a future blog.
He speaks about games. Infinite and finite. He mentions that finite games have a winner and losers. Infinite games do not.
What strikes me and bothers me is that I have been going to my 7 year old daughters school as a parent a few times in the past two years. Although I played American football when I was young and was so competitive that it still "haunts" me to this day I am horrified whenever I see the children at my daughters school participate in competition on almost every level. Even academic. It's so heartbreaking to see the faces of the children that "loose". We as adults are numb to the devastation it causes. We almost can't remember what it is like. I am so adamant about this that I feel like approaching the faculty and asking that they suspend all competitive activity only I feel like I am being to sensitive and would be looked at like I was crazy. I would love to pull her out of that environment but my wife and the law make it almost impossible. I don't want any responses to this here as this blog is about pain. But something in what Richard was saying in his site brought up an emotional pain concerning this and I just needed to air it. I hope you open up the space to discuss this in your own enlightened way in some future blog. As corny as this has always sounded to me, now that I am a father I see that the children are the future.
RICHARD:
QuickTime. Trust me on this one. Best quality cheapest approach.
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 09:23 PM
RICHARD:
Maybe I should just sleep more. I been burning the candle at both ends for years. I kind of did a Herman Hess's "Sidhartha" thing. I got so overwhelmed in the "Higher Consciousness" movement of the 80's (I mean deep and fully engaged) that I checked out for the 90's to pursue a purely sensual path. Thank god I didn't kill myself and now with a daughter, meditation and a website like this I may actually find my "inner" balance again.
The suggestions Deepak gives in this very blog are simple yet powerful.
I'm so used to staying up all night that I need to shift my biological clock. Sleep at night and if I'm gonna blog, do it during daylight hours." (I'm in Zürich)
I'll copy your advice and if I don't seem to find my natural rhythm I will certainly look deeper into what you are suggesting. Now to bed. it's 6:32 am. I need some sleep as my daughter will awaken in 1/2 hour. I'll check back in in about 1 and 1/2 hours.
Thanks for the input.
Posted by: Fool (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 20, 2005 09:38 PM
Laurence, I would second a desire for insight on sports and competition. I see where competition leads to violence so are the schools promoting conflict and violence with sports? Perhaps not if various wisdoms are taught in conjunction. Sports can lead to some very disturbing situations.
It is almost as if they promote seperation and ego leading to conflict. I think sports where we compete against our own prior performance are good.
The fans of many sporting events seem to be inclined to violence as well.
It was intersting reading the responses on Gothams blog about sports. Is there some good that comes out of it, perhaps if we can remember that the winner and loser are one and the same.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 20, 2005 09:41 PM
Have a question on consciousness that intrigues me:
Deepak mentions the 'myriad channels of consciousness'. Laurence and Richard have been talking of 'levels of consciousness'.
Is it consciousness which receives 'vibes' from someone else and where do they come from?
Doesn't always often to me but have experienced very posditive as well as negative ones from people without knowing them at all. Its just something that takes over my reasoning while in their vicinity. I have looked on a face or been physically close to someone and simply felt that here is a person with peace and compassion written all over, sometimes the effect is not as positive.
I know many to whom this has happened and many who say they have never expeienced it and dismiss it as being judgemental and/or just a matter of 'first impression'.
Could anyone please explain this?
Posted by: Dara at September 21, 2005 12:58 AM
Don´t know ..nothing ´bout this topic,
but, let´s contribute from this angle,
;)
There are only two kinds of pain,
the pain of regret or the pain of dicipline,
the one weights tons and the other one onces,
- Anthony Robbins, Jim Rohn
Pain and Pleasure,
they are not opposites,
they are neighbours,
- Sylvester Stallone, The Contender
resilience,
the ability to rebounce, after a loss,
the stages:
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. barganing
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
- on death and other not so ...hmmm
Arnold Schwarzenegger:
Pumping Iron,
´I´m coming!!! everywhere I go, I´m coming!!!
In the Gym I´m making love with the iron, I´m coming!! In bed I´m coming, My whole day is about coming!´
Now, that´s what we call...one hell of a neuro-association!!! ;)
Definitley a passionate lover of life ;)
And that´s maybe what it could be about?
like the woman in labor?
Love, passion an a smile
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 21, 2005 01:42 AM
charakter(istics) of resilience,
1. insight, the ability to ask tough question about yourself (and be honest with the answers)
2. independence, self refferal
3. interdependent, social
4. initiatife,
5. creative,
6. sense of humor,
7. morality,
Love, Passion ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 21, 2005 01:53 AM
Hi Deepak,
As usual, you are simply brilliant and a trifle difficult to understand.
I think YOGA, a gift of Indian seers,provides answers to many of the modern unexplained problems.
love
Devender
Posted by: D D Sharma at September 21, 2005 02:12 AM
Dara,
I know what you are talking about. That is exactly what I have been trying to place. Ravi in another thread in his assertion about belief systems, which I also say and agree with as a practical cause to change. In the thread Deepak is putting the weight in the change of consciouness, Ravi puts the weight on Belief systems.
I give both weight, but not sure how they relate.
I do know that it could have to do with oscillating systems there effect on other oscillating systems and attention which actually applies to the changing thoughts and beliefs.
When you meet these other people doesn't it change where your attention is at or what it is on?
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 21, 2005 07:25 AM
Dear Dr. Deepak,
Once again, it is insightful to read from here. This topic is definately far infront of current neurologic and scientific analysis as it skips, or rather transcends, the all too prominent focus on the physical realm as the cause. The nonlocal realm using the play of opposites, and the drama of ignorance to intensify, or accentuate the discovery of the ceaseless reality of unity consciousness. That consciousness- unity consciousness involves to lower realms, only to progressively evolve, or realise its true nature again, is to my understanding that gigantic Brahmic dance in which existence flows.
Next, I want to mention that I omitted mentioning, in my response to your post yesterday, that the flow of knowledge from this blog has come not only from you, but from many, many "brain boxes" who inhabit this blog.
Posted by: Emmanuel at September 21, 2005 07:31 AM
Interesting post Deepak.
Isn't the feeling of pain 'hurting' in many ways pure perception? For example, we can sink an individual into a deep level of sleep and do surgery on their body. We are cutting into tissues and nerve endings that while they were awake they would perceive this cut as agony. However, without them being conscious of their bodies, there is not pain or discomfort. When they become conscious, they are instantly aware of trauma and pain and may need to use large amounts of narcotics to control that pain.
So isn't pain relative to consciousness?
Peace,
Scott.
Posted by: Scott Masterton at September 21, 2005 08:48 AM
Even more interesting, but along the same lines is that perception of pain can vary from one individual to the next...in other words, what triggers pleasure in one person may trigger a pain response in another.
For example, most people would find that a gentle touch on the neck or some sensitive body part is pleasureable. But there are those that were victims of sexual abuse as children that associate that touch with pain. Even as adults, many years after the abuse, the association can still remain the same. However, this too is not static...that person could possibly change this association within a safe and loving relationship. What once caused pain can cause pleasure.
I find the whole subject of consciousness and how it affects the physical world fascinating. It just reinforces to me that all things are perception.
Peace,
Scott.
Posted by: Scott Masterton at September 21, 2005 09:07 AM
hi Deepak,
'the transformation .....was just a twist from object to subject'
Does the twist have a 'how' or is it literally a transformation ??
Also if it was just consciousness working at a deep level then would a certain pain stimulus not produce a predictable response? We know that that is not the case - people do respond differently to the same pain stimulus and also the same person can respond differently to the same stimulus on different occasions (classical situation being not feeling war wounds until after the battle - partly attributed to the other chemicals/endorphins etc around at that time)
The subjective interpretation of the pain is influenced by other factors / past history etc
- are these added simultaneously at the time of the twist to produce the subjective experience ??
Is there any correlation with one's level of consciousness and subjective experience of pain ?? would that be expected given what you have stated ??
Rambling thoughts !!
love majic
Posted by: majic at September 21, 2005 09:29 AM
Dara, we are not separate physical entities. We are part of an invisible web of energy (prana) that unites everyone.
When we tune into this level of consciousness (the Pranamaya kosha/the vital body that Deepak has described in earlier blogs) we connect with each other at an energy level, so we can "feel" each other regardless of distance. We do not feel positive/negative vibes (these are labels given by our conditioned mind), we simply feel what exists in another point of this web of consciousness and our compatibility or resistance to it.
Ayurvedic pranic healing, Reiki and many other energy techniques work on this level and many people can intuitively tune into this dimension of ourselves.
Posted by: Aurora at September 21, 2005 10:11 AM
Richard, you write: "In the thread Deepak is putting the weight in the change of consciouness, Ravi puts the weight on Belief systems.
I give both weight, but not sure how they relate."
As I see it, Ravi's focus on changing the belief system is focused on the Manomaya kosha, the mental body. It is an important and worthwhile work. But what Deepak always underlines is that regularly tapping into the point of pure consciousness that is beyond all our koshas results in the greatest change, at all levels that emerge from that point -from the body of bliss to the physical body.
It is always good to look for ways of doing less and achieving more, all the way to where we do nothing and achieve everything.
Posted by: Aurora at September 21, 2005 10:24 AM
Deepak,
You have explained beautifully how the subtle body concept of the ancient sages answers the question ( as a matter of fact, the larger question you mentioned), which today's neurophysicists, quntum brain theorists
and other scientists are diligently working on.
Computer scientists like me would describe the subtle body interaction with the physical body in the following way: The physical brain with its systems of neurons is like the hardware of a computer. The subtle body is like the software (both programs and data) residing in it. Hence, when the brain processes sensory inputs using electrochemical processes (similar to electrical signal processing of inputs from the key board by our PC), the processing is directed by the software in it. The output of the processes is recorded in the brain's memory and becomes part of the subtle body (I think you call this mind also). This is similar to storing in a computer's
memory the pattern learnt by a learning program. Some of the output of the brain's processing may be expressed via sense mechanisms such as speech just like a programs' output is displayed on the PC screen.
This approach also explains why different people perceive the same world event differently. Consider two PCs, one loaded with a program that translates English into German and the other loaded with one that translates English into Sanskrit. If the same English passage entered into the two PCs, the first PC outputs German and the latter outputs Sanskrit. When we know that the PCs have different software, there is no mystery. The software is not as visible as the hardware, that is exactly why they are called soft and hard.
Some of the scientists of today do not seem to think the subtle body or the mind is different from the brain whereas there are biologists who think so. I read one of Amit Goswami's books after you mentioned his name and he does think mind is different from the physical body as do our ancient sages.
In any case, just like computer software, the subtle body of human beings can also be explored and managed with guidance from people like you.
Posted by: Syamala at September 21, 2005 01:29 PM
I love that you pointed out the difference between what is going on in the mind versus what is going on in the brain. I think far too few people know that there is a difference between the two.
Posted by: jo-fo at September 21, 2005 02:27 PM
I still think the mind is a tool, and it is crafted. It can be crafted by one self or by others.
Aurora can you please define "pure consciousness".
It is not that I disagree, but rather we live in a realm where the manifestation of experience is found in the lower Koshas. So to actually change it we use tools in that realm.
How would you say consciousness changes beliefs, for it is these that are resulting in conflict and disease and poverty. I would surmise that the level of consciousness could affect the choice of beliefs perhaps leading to holding only a handful of them.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 21, 2005 03:37 PM
DARA:
Interesting thoughts. It reminded me of many instances of feeling some ones "vibes".
I think depending on the parameters of any given situation it could be one of many reasons including some you have mentioned. First impression, judging/projecting, intuition, etc.
I like this idea of Richard's where he speaks of human vibrations (oscillations) and references the vibrations of tuning forks.
Two questions for you RICHARD concerning tuning forks:
1. Doesn't a tuning fork need to be of the same frequency to influence another one brought into its proximity? I'm not sure if this is accurate. I thought I had heard this in the past.
2. If it doesn't (and even if it does) need to be of the same pitch this idea of human vibrations influencing each other in such a mechanical way never occurred to me until now. I understand that the tuning forks must be in visibly close proximity to one another in order to measure a perceptible influence. Some how I feel as if people on this blog are influencing each other in the same mechanical way although we are located all around the globe. Your thoughts please concerning vibrations, tuning forks and location/proximity.
DARA:
I think the more important thing is that whether the "vibes" you get from another person are your projections, intuition, first impression or psychic ability, the ground of being for all experience is consciousness itself. Or higher self if you will.
Just a short story that your question brought to mind when I first read it.
When I first arrived in India I was in an extremely antisocial state. I arrived there in this state. It wasn't India. It was where I had been at for some time. The first 3 days in Delhi I spoke to no one unless it concerned the exchange of money in the action of a purchase or rent.
On my forth day I saw someone that I knew from my past. As I walked toward them I searched my memory banks and as I drew nearer I realized that the chances of someone from my past and I crossing paths in India were so remote it was almost impossible. Must have been one of those people you just kinda feel like you know. And so I refrained from making contact.
A little while past and then I saw someone else and had the same strong feeling. Only this time they were looking at me and they too wore an expression of unrecognizable recognition. We stared at one another for another instance and then broke gazes and moved on. To weird I thought. (I was completely clean of any mind altering substances).
As the day went on the frequency of this experience began to increase to the point where I recognized every single person walking on the streets intimately (and Delhi streets are crowded). I felt panic and thought I was losing my mind.
And then it hit me. This was India. Everything I had ever read about eastern spirituality had not prepared me for the experience of it. I did in fact know each and every person in my field of vision. And I knew from where. From my many pasts.
The moment I had that thought all the panic subsided and I was actually able to observe it all in a state of awe. All these lives that had touch me and each other mingled in this moment of space time. And more then that they were all me at some point.
I believe you when you talk about your "vibes" from other people. I think it is a partial experience of the oneness that we are.
Today I was at a children's park with my 7 year old daughter. This guy entered my space and just kind of hung out. He looked totally out of place. He wore low cut ridiculously pointed black boots with almost marshmallow heals. Tacky black polyester pants and a button up collared long sleeve black shirt. As I observed myself making these negative observations and feeling ridicule toward him it occurred to me that he was wearing exactly what i would have been seen wearing some years ago in one of my "cool" phases. (I have them every other year or so).
Posted by: Laurence Peter Brown at September 21, 2005 03:49 PM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The life of Patacara,
a woman who lived in India at the time of the Buddha, a rey strong, young beautiful woman.
(dedicated to the most privileged & the most intelligent!)
[Time 550 B.C.] When her parents picked out a prospective husband for her, she secretely married instead a servant who had long been her lover. The consequence of that allegiance to her own heart was rejection by her family. She and her husband had to leave and made their home in a distant part of India.
It was the custom in that culture for a woman to return to her mother's house when it was time to give birth. She could not make it for her first child. With the second child, she started her trek alone because of her stupid husband's resistance. He soon followed.
He found them deep in the woods as a fierce storm began picking up. As he gathered wood to build a shelter for his child & pregnant wife, he was bitten by a snake & died.
Patacara gave birth alone. She sheltered her newborn & her other child with her body as the storm raged on.
She had to cross a large river to get to her parents' place. She could not cross with both children. She told the toddler to stay put & entered the water carrying the newborn.
She crossed the river, settled the newborn into a nest of leaves, & began to make her way back for her other child. But when she reached mid-river, to her horror, she saw a hawk swoop down, pick up the baby, & begin carrying it away as prey. Her only child hearing her shriek, thought she was alling him to come to her. He ran into the water towards her, & she watched as he was swept up in the waves and drowned.
--------------Bonnie Myotai Treace---------------
Patacara made her way to her old home, all alone.
Nobody showed any welcome. All showed disdain.
Patacara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wept for you! Patacara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Ignorance is the mother of all suffering."-----------Buddha
Patacara was Enlightened & stayed with Buddha for the next 20 years to help the helpless.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Tyan at September 21, 2005 04:57 PM
Scott,
Let me take a shot at why we do not feel the pain when we are under the influence of anesthesia using the hardware-software model. I am not going to be scientifically accurate because I am not a brain scientist. Still, I think the idea is more or less OK. Computer circuits can be blocked to receive inputs. You might have come across key board being blocked while mouse still works. Another example is: if a damaged floppy is inserted into the floppy drive of PC, then nothing can be read from or written into that floppy (the hard drive still works). This is because the READ and WRITE are low level programs built into the electronic circuitry of The PC and are part of the hardware. Every PC has them. Similarly, if some neural circuits in the brain are blocked before they process or convey the signals to produce their trace in the memory, we do not feel the pain although we see our hand being cut.
In the second example you mentioned, where a touch on the neck causes pleasure in some and pain in others is due to difference in the psychological condition (the software) of the brains. In the former case, the touch is perceived as friendly and the latter case, as aggression.
Posted by: Syamala at September 21, 2005 06:19 PM
The original question "Why does pain hurt?"
I still don't feel that this question has been answered. Deepak put his twist on Western Medicine versus Oriental Medicine, but I still don't feel that we have answered it.
When my grand daughter is crying and wondering why she feels so bad because her teeth are coming in, I still have to say "Honey, I am sorry, but I just don't know"
Posted by: summer at September 21, 2005 07:15 PM
Was Patacara's pain more than my pain & your pain?
Was it a mental pain or a physical pain, or a spiritual pain, or an intellectual pain, or a stupid pain???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Was it a genuine pain??????
All you guys, if you were sent to Iraq or New Orleans....because you will never be willing to go there......................
Then you know what pain really is !!!!!!!!!
I did not get marry not because I didn't want to.
My friend got married & got killed because she wanted to marry to the one she really loved but her family could not afford the DOWRY!!!!
INDIAN, you say?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
She got killed.
And her family got humiliated!
Please don't hide behind the Western civilization!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please do not hide behind the base ball, the cricket, the elite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Tyan at September 21, 2005 07:54 PM
Dear Tyan,
Why do you think that people hide? To avoid pain? Is it fear? of what?
To escape, or embrace pain? Is pain even necessary?
And you ask interesting questions, can pain be ..... mostly of our own making? !
The love for your friend comes shining through.
~~ K
Posted by: K at September 21, 2005 08:30 PM
Richard,
"When you meet these other people doesn't it change where your attention is at or what it is on?"
Thanks for going into this. As to your question, I'm not sure it changes my attention so much as draws my attention to the person - I suppose that actually means that yes, my attention is diverted. What I do know is my subsequent reaction. In both cases I pay careful attention to what they may have to say. However, in one case I may be doing it with trust and hope and in the other, I pay greater attention and examine it very carefully before I form an opinion. That is why when others see it as being judgemental I have to concede thay have a point.
Aurora,
Yes it did strike me as being similar to Reiki and seems logical. Am not too familiar with Reiki even though I have seen it helping someone else who was in a critical condition and great discomfort. It did not heal, it was too late for that. It did make the end far more peaceful and comfortable than what the doctors had warned the family to expect.
I have no doubts about the universal web of energy that binds us regardless. Your explanation regarding compatibility and resistance and the connection we make with each other puts things in better perspective - thanks.
Laurence,
I was amazed and fascinated by your experiences in Delhi - raises a whole heap of questions of individual sensitivity levels. Makes me question whether I am letting my existence slip away without fully appreciating, fine tuning and realising the full potential that each of us is endowed with.
More than anything else that is what I am learning here and enjoying it.
Posted by: Dara at September 22, 2005 12:59 AM
Dear Dr. Chopra,
Sorry for this unorthodox method of reaching your eyes. Had written a mail to you earlier, but not too sure, if it had reached you. If it had and you have chosen to not answer it, it is perfectly justifiable.Am reproducing part of it.
My name is Mayank Gandhi (age 46 ) and i was an atheist living a normal, mundane, struggling middle class life in Mumbai. On 16th Feb 2003, i had a spontaneous Kundalini awakening and life after that, has been an amazing roller coaster ride. One of the primary reasons that i had an awakening was that I was extremely engrossed in works related to nation building and was, inadverently, pressurizing my upper chakras all the time.
The purpose of writing to you is to firstly express my gratefulness to your writings for helping me understand some of the phenomena that was happening in my body and mind. In my desperation to come to terms with the mystical experiences, I spend most of my waking hours trying to meditate, reading on quantum physics, energy healing, vedas, upanishads, kundalini etc.
Creation of events through the use of "iccha-shakti" is what interests me. There have been a few terminal cases that have recovered and some major events created in public life due to my intervention. Documentation of the same has also been created. Please understand that the above has been written, not to bring attention to myself, but to explain my credibility.
The second reason for writing is to commend you for spreading the Indian knowledge system and to request you to use your considerable abilities to bring to the public domain the following subjects:
Kundalini, energy and its relationship with consciousness and matter, validation of the power that lies within etc
Working of the cosmos, the different planes of existence, involution and evolution, the koshas, the tattvas, the lokas in terms of physics etc.
If there is any way that I can be of help - including as a subject for kundalini or energy validation, I would be more than happy to be of assistance. Once again sorry for using this unconventional route and imposing on your time and the patience of the other readers.
Love
Mayank
modelle@vsnl.net
Posted by: Mayank Gandhi at September 22, 2005 03:55 AM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If you REALLY know what pain is,
then IT won't hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Nayt at September 22, 2005 04:33 AM
IT hurts because you want to hurt yourself.
You pain because you feel painful.
IT is all out of STUPIDITY!!!!!!!
My STUPIDITY!!
And yours too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: HaHaHa at September 22, 2005 04:39 AM
Ah well, If everybody else´s spamm´s whatever´s
on their minds,
I might as well join,
because, a shared ´grow-oppertunity´ is half the problem..eeuh, ;) anyway,
Dharma - the natural, effortless path a person is intended to walk in life, Dharma is your destiny, but destiny without any hint of compulsion, or force, on the contrary, your Dharma is the path of Least resistance..
now, that and woman...
aarghhh!!!!
ah, better,
Love, Passion and a smile,
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 06:09 AM
Hi Syamala,
Thank you. Basically what you were saying is what I was attempting to rhetorically say. Really, pain 'hurts' because of our interpretation of it...or our perception. There are some anesthesia that block pain impulses. However, there others that simply put one into unconsciousness...it was those that I find fascinating, because the 'hardware' (as you put it) is in place, but the consciousness becomes disconnected from the body.
WIth the second example, pain is purely a perception of an event. After all, pain is designed (like every other bodily sensation) to help us move toward that which is nourishing and safe and away from that thing which is dangerous to our health or life. IF the perception that light touch is the prelude to danger, than the perception of the touch will be one of pain. If the touch is perceived as that which leads to love or pleasure, then the touch will be perceived as pleasant.
Thanks much,
Scott.
Posted by: Scott Masterton at September 22, 2005 07:27 AM
Tyan's NIGHTMARE----------------
"Tyan dreamt last night that she was Patacara. She was reminded that she made so many mistakes & was so ignorant resulting in her ultimate suffering. Even after spending 20 years with Buddha helping the helpless, she is still suffering now, after more than 2,500 years.
Patacara's Stupidity:-
She was in love with her servant.
She married him instead of the perfect marriage that was arranged for her by her loved parents.
She had children under the utmost dire condition.
She did it again.
She remembered the past.
She left her partner.
She took a helpless kid with her to a dead end.
She did everything out of impulse.
Her husband got killed because of her.
Her loved son got killed.
Her newborn son got killed.
She tried to inflict more pain on her loved parents & friends again.
The most inexcusable,she is inflicting pain on Tyan, 2,500 years later, who is totally innocent.
Tyan:-"GOD! What did I do to deserve this???
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. Chopra, will you marry me?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I am dying to see what is the result of the marriage of the most Intelligent with the most Stupid!!!
But we will never know. Because I promised Mrs. Chopra that I will kill Mr. Chopra with my two hands if he wants to marry me. "
Posted by: Nayt at September 22, 2005 07:44 AM
Laurence,
Fantastic experience which I think contains great revelation. I can relate to similar experience.
There is this Saint from India that I met here in the US. What was interesting is that I had been reading Deepak's how to know God a second time. Got to the part about his Saint experience and thought I would like to have that experience and then did not think another thought.
Well two weeks later I was going to one of Marianne Williamsons lectures to do the video but she had gotten sick at the Airport and could not make it. So Archarya Meenakshi Devi sort of stood in for her in part and did this meditation.
We sort of met by happenstance in the Lobby and just said Hi, not much more than that and she invited me to her house (guest house she was staying at). At first I almost declined but then I remembered the Deepak experience so I said yes. I did not know what to expect.
So I went there it was a very interesting experience. At one point she asked if I had any questions and I said yes, is it possible to destroy Illusion. She wasn't familiar with the western word, which I said was like Maya. So then she understood. She thought not, I thought that it could be at least to a large degree. Then I helped here with getting her visa issue worked out to go to Japan and we chatted about Amaranth and Leprosy and stuff.
By the way she had met Deepak apparently he had come over to somewhere for dinner but she did not know that he was the author. She said that at the time she thought he was some amazing Sufi Master. (just thought I would share that)
After that, this unusual penny appeared one that I had wanted as a child, now it wasn't the exact one but it was one that had an unusual die imperfection. It was the same essence of the penny I wanted.
Then I had like two weeks of Kundalini type experience, I wrote profusily nonstop neglecting my regular job, I didn't sleep correctly it was almost as if I was being taken over by some intelligence.
At the time I was also around some other people shall we say of a higher consciousness so I don't know what to attribute it all to.
She did invite me to come to India, and after reading your extraordinary experience I am very inclined to go there when funding and purpose permits.
Thanks for sharing
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 22, 2005 07:54 AM
Richard, pure consciousness is existence without the "I" who experiences it. You could also call it pure being. We tap into that level when we meditate (in the gap between thoughts) or in any situation when the line between the experiencer and the experienced is erased.
You say "we live in a realm where the manifestation of experience is found in the lower Koshas. So to actually change it we use tools in that realm".
We actually live in all realms at once, but we are not always aware of them. It is impossible to live only in the physical realm, because reality comes into being like a fountain of levels, from the more subtle to the more material, all coming from the central point of pure consciousness. The gross levels are born out of the more subtle levels and cannot exist without them. We all live in all levels at once, therefore tools on any level can affect anyone, and the more subtle the level of the tools, the more deep and wide the effect will be.
You say "How would you say consciousness changes beliefs, for it is these that are resulting in conflict and disease and poverty. I would surmise that the level of consciousness could affect the choice of beliefs perhaps leading to holding only a handful of them."
Reaching deeper levels of consciousness, the ones beyond the manomaya kosha(the mind body) means that we stop identifying with the mind and its belief system and conditioning. We see the mind body as just another body included into what we call "I". The moment we are free of this identification we are truly free to observe the mind and change its software. It is much more effective and effortless to do this from levels beyond the mind, than to be IN the mind and try to change the conditioning through affirmations, mind control and so on. The mind needs beliefs in order to function, but these beliefs are not automatic anymore, we are free to choose a belief system that is in tune with our true nature.
Posted by: Aurora at September 22, 2005 08:30 AM
Rumour has it that Mr. Chopra got his parents', his kids', & his wife's permission to marry Tyan, providing Tyan chopping her two hands first.
So now Tyan is waivering between some physical pain & metaphysical pain.
And the answer is?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Tyan?
Posted by: HaHaHa at September 22, 2005 08:31 AM
We Are Alive - Paul Van Dyk
Have you seen a mother
Kiss her son goodbye.
Have you seen a dark cloud?
Fight a silver line
I have seen a loved one
Tell a million lies
Karma's like a boomerang
Whirling deep inside.
May not know
A thing about you.
You don't know
A thing about me.
May not know
A thing about you
But if we really feel...
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a break
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a deep breath
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a break
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a deep breath
We're alive
Put me on an loveplane
Let's fly up to the sky
Help me, love will be
The foolest game to get me high.
Let's drive out this highway,
Feel the future vain.
Let this twist and wanna love you so,
Here we go.
You don't know
A thing about me.
I don't know
A thing about you.
You don't know
A thing about you.
But let's enjoy the view...
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a break
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a deep breath
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a break
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a deep breath
Don't take yourself too seriously.
Relax, release the heat
We may wear different clothes,
Pray to God in different vogues
But we're not alone.
We are alive...
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a break
We are ali-i-i-ve...
Take a deep breath
We are ali-i-i-ve...
We are alive, we're alive yeah
We are ali-i-i-ve
We are alive
We are alive
Take a deep breath
Take a deep breath
Take a deep breath
Take a deep breath
pranayama?
Love, passion and a..;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 08:56 AM
Ignition
Now,um,usually I dont do this but uh....
Go head' on and break em off wit a lil' preview of the remix....
No I'm not tryin to be rude,
But hey pretty girl I'm feelin you
The way you do the things you do
Remind me of my Lexus coup
Thats why im all up in yo grill
Tryina get you to a hotel
You must be a football coach
The way you got me playin the field
So baby gimme that toot toot
Lemme give you that beep beep
Runnin her hands through my 'fro
Bouncin on 24's
While they say on the radio...
It's the remix to ignition
Hot and fresh out the kitchen
Mama rollin that body
got every man in here wishin
Sippin on coke and rum
I'm like so what I'm drunk
It's the freakin weekend baby
I'm about to have me some fun
Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce Bounce
Bounce Bounce Bounce
Now it's like murder she wrote
Once I get you out them clothes
Privacy is on the door
Still they can hear you screamin more
Girl I'm feelin what you feelin
No more hopin and wishin
I'm bout to take my key and
Stick it in the ignition
So baby gimme that toot toot
Lemme give you that beep beep
Runnin her hands through my 'fro
Bouncin on 24's
While they say on the radio...
This is the remix to ignition
Hot and fresh out the kitchen
Mama rollin that body
Got every man in here wishin
Sippin on coke and rum
I'm like so what i'm drunk
It's the freakin weekend baby
I'm about to have me some fun
Crystall poppin in the stretch Navigator
We got food every where
As if the party was catored
We got fellas to my left
Hunnies on my right
We bring em both together we got junkin all night
Then after the show its the (after party)
And after the party its the (hotel lobby)
And round about 4 you gotta (clear the lobby)
Then head take it to the room and freak somebody
Can I get a toot toot
Can I get a beep beep
Runnin her hands through my 'fro
Bouncin on 24's
While they say on the radio...
This is the remix to ignition
Hot and fresh out the kitchen
Mama rollin that body
Got every man in here wishin
Sippin on coke and rum
I'm like so what I'm drunk
It's the freakin weekend baby
I'm about to have me some fun
This is the remix to ignition
Hot and fresh out the kitchen
Mama rollin that body
Got every man in here wishin
Sippin on coke and rum
I'm like so what I'm drunk
It's the freakin weekend baby
I'm about to have me some fun
Girl we off in this jeep
Foggin windows up
Blastin the radio
In the back of my truck
Bouncin up and down
Stroke it round and round
To the remix
We just thuggin it out...

What can I say..playfullness, carelessness,
I must have some kind of ..Dharma ;)
Love! passion!
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 09:32 AM
These words are my own...
straight from the hart,
Threw some chords together
The combination D-E-F
Is who I am, is what I do
No one's gonna let it down for you
Try to focus my attention
But I feel so A-D-D
I need some help, some inspiration
(But it's not coming easily)
Whoah oh...
Trying to find the magic
Trying to write a classic
Don't you know, don't you know, don't you know?
Waste-bin full of paper
Clever rhymes, see you later
These words are my own
From my heart flown
I love you, I love you, I love you,
I love you
There's no other way
To better say
I love you, I love you...
Read some Byron, Shelly and Keats
Resided in over a Hip-Hop beat
I'm having trouble saying what I mean
With dead poets and drum machines
I know I had some studio time booked
But I couldn't find a killer hook
Now you're gonna raise the bar right up
Nothing I write is ever good enough
These words are my own
From my heart flown
I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you
There's no other way
To better sayI love you, I love you...
I'm getting off my stage
The curtains pull away
No hyper bowl to hide behind
My naked soul exposes
Whoah.. oh.. oh.. oh..
Whoah.. oh..
Trying to find the magic
Trying to write a classic
Waste-bin full of paper
Clever rhymes, see you later
These words are my own
From my heart flown
I love you, I love you, I love you,
I love you
There's no other way
To better say
I love you...
I love you, is that okay...?
I am unwritten, can't read my mind, I'm undefined
I'm just beginning, the pen's in my hand, ending unplanned
Staring at the blank page before you
Open up the dirty window
Let the sun illuminate the words that you could not find
Reaching for something in the distance
So close you can almost taste it
Release your inhibitions
Feel the rain on your skin
No one else can feel it for you
Only you can let it in
No one else, no one else
Can speak the words on your lips
Drench yourself in words unspoken
Live your life with arms wide open
Today is where your book begins
The rest is still unwritten
Oh, oh, oh
I break tradition, sometimes my tries, are outside the lines
We've been conditioned to not make mistakes, but I can't live that way
Staring at the blank page before you
Open up the dirty window
Let the sun illuminate the words that you could not find
Reaching for something in the distance
So close you can almost taste it
Release your inhibitions
Feel the rain on your skin
No one else can feel it for you
Only you can let it in
No one else, no one else
Can speak the words on your lips
Drench yourself in words unspoken
Live your life with arms wide open
Today is where your book begins
Feel the rain on your skin
No one else can feel it for you
Only you can let it in
No one else, no one else
Can speak the words on your lips
Drench yourself in words unspoken
Live your life with arms wide open
Today is where your book begins
The rest is still unwritten
Staring at the blank page before you
Open up the dirty window
Let the sun illuminate the words that you could not find
Reaching for something in the distance
So close you can almost taste it
Release your inhibitions
Feel the rain on your skin
No one else can feel it for you
Only you can let it in
No one else, no one else
Can speak the words on your lips
Drench yourself in words unspoken
Live your life with arms wide open
Today is where your book begins
Feel the rain on your skin
No one else can feel it for you
Only you can let it in
No one else, no one else
Can speak the words on your lips
Drench yourself in words unspoken
Live your life with arms wide open
Today is where your book begins
The rest is still unwritten
The rest is still unwritten
The rest is still unwritten
Oh, yeah, yeah
Natasha Bedingfield
http://marekdariusz.blogspot.com/
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 09:42 AM
Aurora,
That was a wonderful explanation of pure consciousness and the Koshas and how to bring about changes at the various levels. You know it all so well.
Posted by: Syamala at September 22, 2005 09:44 AM
Dr. Wayne Dyer says that your soul mate is the person who you can't stand but are in your life to teach you a powerful lesson.
for more detailed information on this topic, see Dr. Wayne Dyer´s ´Manifesting your Destiny´ program and others, on
http://www.drwaynedyer.com/home/index.cfm
- That´s great news, Wayne! but what if, you just can´t sue that lovely fanny?
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 09:46 AM
One should try out EFT for emotional pain, physical pain and later on performance improvement. The pain exists since you have not accepted yourself deeply and completely . No sooner you accept yourself, the intensity of the pain reduces dramatically. Repeated acceptance,release and affirmation cycle through tapping various points given in EFT can reduce the consciousness of pain greatly.
(EFT stands for Emotional Freedom Technique)
I use it for physiological pain, emotional pain with quick , long lasting success.
Posted by: Nikhil Shah at September 22, 2005 09:49 AM
Hi Deepak:
I am from Mexico City. I just want to tell you Since I read your book: Synchrodestiny my life has change and real miracles start happening to me.
Thank you
Posted by: Jorge Manterola at September 22, 2005 10:18 AM
Rumour has IT:-
Bring IT all out!!!!
They were all negotiating for a peaceful settlement:-
-chop of one hand
-just chop off some fingers
-Gotham: cut off her extra finger nails, just as a symbol...they are dirty anyway!!
Tyan:"Not an hair" and she walked out of the door!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She is so attached to her physical 'form' that she is going to suffer eternally!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: HaHaHa at September 22, 2005 10:33 AM
Marek,
Lovely lovely poems!!!!
Did I propose to you before & you said NO?
Never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't even want to see you in a London pub!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 22, 2005 11:04 AM
Tyan,
get lost man!, woman.., whatever you are, nobody seems to grasp ´a clue´ about you, Divine Being, in any case, Namaste! but don´t bug my ´courtship´business here ;)
Love, Passion and smile ;)
How is the synchrodestiny cq quantumhealing going?
Ps. The beer in a London pub is freakin´beyond my ´abundence´ abilities to get..;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 11:43 AM
Chasing Forever Lyrics
by Will Smith
[ Download Will Smith Ringtones ] [ Send to a friend ]
Early mornin' wake up
Gently with the Caress on your hand
And that Kimono that I bought you on my trip to Japan
Sunshine peekin through the venitian blinds
Four years, and like wine, you got finer with time
I got a question, if the prodda dressin and the Gucci
All got goes, and the freeze on the Lucci
I mean real bad girl, I'm talking rougher than rough
Do you think it'd be enough if we just had us?
Don't answer quick, think about it cause I'm askin for real
Golddiggers goin' to hear this song drivin and crash at the wheel
Forever is a long time, so far we gettin along fine
No car I ever drove, no ice I ever saw
No music I ever made, ain't nothin I wanted more
We could deal with whatever together
Sunshine, all that other weather, when we chasin forever
Chorus:
I wanna stay with you forever
I wanna spend all my life with only you
I wanna stay, lets stay together
Chasing forever, with only you
Verse 2:
Chasin forever, a buckwild, endeavorous scene
Should we pursue with somethin real or just chasin a dream
Or casin' the scene
Fore I die I plan
To see your soul and eternity in the palm of my hands
Now as a man, there's certain things I'm lackin for sure
But I'm committed to growin and coming at you mature
In the future, I know it ain't gonna be all good
But when we feelin the hurt, if we willin to work
The eight ball will never turn to see us behind
Though I ain't no knight, and my armor don't shine
My mom said the lynch pin of love is trust
An taught me monogomy is uh, monogamous
Plus, for you dinner by candlelight
Now don't commit before you sure you understand me right
It's a race to a strange place, most see never
It's a chase we gotta make together, forever
Chorus
Verse 3:
Now you would think after all my heartbreaks I'd be cruel
Hiding behind my ego, evil but no
Much the contrary, I'm very much certain
You searchin for joy, it's on the other side of hurtin
Finally found a person, worthy of all
Instead of pushin me down, you wanna cushion my fall
Your eyes could make the sun rise, all the birds sing
Seal it with a kiss, bind it with a ring
More carrats than even bugs could eat in a week
An the ribbon in the sky, close your eyes don't peek
I'll tell you what I see in the future
A hacienda so cute with, five little kids callin you mom and callin me dad
Havin more good times than JJ had
Judging by the look in your eyes, you see it
Let no man sever, welcome to forever
Chorus to fade

because..;)
Gonna Make You an Offer You Can't Refuse
Jimmy Helms
Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse
Gonna put my finger on you
Cause I need you so
And I won't take no for an answer
In my life I've had a time
Had to fight for what was mine
And I don't intend to lose my crown
But every time I look at you
And the beautiful things you do
Every single nerve in my body says hold it down
So now I'm putting about the feeble word like what must be must be
Didn't you know that you belonged to me
Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse
Like a puppet thing, when I pull the string
You're the dancer
Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse
Gonna put my finger on you
Cause I need you so
And I won't take no for an answer

Did you ever sit waiting, hoping, wanting something that never was going
to be
I've got a feeling deep inside
That I need you by my side
And I won't let up baby till I do
Yes I know I make you smile
But things will change in a little while
Cause I never say a thing I mean that don't come true
Believe me I don't want to hurt you
But my heart won't set you free
Surely you know that you belong to me
Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse
Gonna put my finger on you
Like a puppet thing, when I pull the string
You're the dancer
Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse
Put my finger on you
Cause I need you so
But I won't take no for an answer
Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse
Gonna put my finger on you
Like a puppet thing, when I pull the string
You're the dancer
Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse
Put my finger on you
Cause I need you so
And I won't take no for an answer
Repeat to fade
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 11:55 AM
there I´m done! ;)
And for the rest of the blogger family,
It´s a love thing..
Love, passion!
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 12:00 PM
one more, sorry..sue me ;)
love,
A Polish Gentleman, but you can call me Peter Pan too..;)
Artist: RAY PARKER JR. Song: YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT
Honey, I'll always love you
I promise I'll always love you
'Cause I think the whole world of you
And you can't change that, no, no
There's nothing you can do or say
I thought about this for many a day
And my mind's made up to feel this way
And you can't change that
'Cause you're the only one I love
And you can't change that
You're the only one I need
And you can't change that
(You're the one I love)
You're the only one I love
And you can't change that
You're the only one I need
And you can't change that
Now you can try if you want to, whoa
You can change your telephone number
And you can change your address too
But you can't stop me from loving you
No, you can't change that, no, no
You can change the color of your hair
And you can change the clothes you wear
But you'll never change the way I care
No, you can't change that
'Cause you're the only one I love
And you can't change that
(You're the one I love)
You're the only one I need
And you can't change that
You're the only one I love
And you can't change that
You're the only one I need
And you can't change that
(You're the one I love, girl)
Now you can try if you want to
(Try me, baby, whoa)
No, you can't change that
(You're the one I love)
You can try but you can't change that
(You're the one)
Now you can change your telephone number
You can change your address too
But you can't stop me from loving you
No, you can't change that, mmm
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 02:17 PM
The free will doctrine...
A big issue in law and philosophy,
But all is fair in ...and (I don´t do the other one, Peace is the way ;)
Read some Neale Donald Walsh on the free will thing that, Deepak on Dharma..;)
Love,
Lovin´livin´it´s all good ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 22, 2005 03:42 PM
Scott
Thanks. glad that we are on the same wavelength.
Actually, to stop reading from and writing into computer memory, the hardware need not be damaged. I was just picking up some examples. An example of hardware and software both healthy but doing nothing is: we usually lock the screen if we are going to be away from our desk for a while. The screen can be unlocked only with a password. That prevents access to the PC unless the password is entered to unlock. I am not saying that this example precisely represents the anesthesia case you mentioned. You can kill a program while it is still running by a command from the key board, invoke it or not invoke it all via commands from outside. Similarly you can influence some memory functions of the brain by giving drugs. The point is that the relation between the brain and mind is the same as that of hardware and software in a computer. There is a big difference though. The software is stored in the computer as a pattern of it physical memory cells. So, the software becomes a part of the hardware. Thoughts in the brain or not merely neural patterns of the brain's memory although they cause formation of neural patterns.
Did anybody prove it? No, not yet in modern science. The subtle body, while it interacts with the brain throughout life, has independent existence. When the physical body dies, the subtle body survives!
Well, that is what I understood from what I read and what I heard.
Posted by: Syamala at September 22, 2005 04:04 PM
“Don't water your weeds.”
Posted by: K at September 22, 2005 05:05 PM
Aurora,
Good stuff. So does ~awareness without thought, qualify as a definition?
I am still thinking about "the mind requires beliefs."
Does a newborn child have a mind?
Just curious, do you think a dog has beliefs?
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 22, 2005 07:52 PM
Sometimes it is hard not to water the weeds, they grow close to the flowers and veggies, because that is where the fertilizer is, so we must pull them. But that sounds so violent.
Do weeds have a purpose?
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 22, 2005 07:56 PM
What creates a weed, not understanding their purpose, or is it a projection of our mind?
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 22, 2005 07:57 PM
ah, now you are on to something, Richard!
The sun shines on all. Rain falls upon the flowers and the weeds.
Indeed, could weeds have a purpose beyond what we commonly think. And how so, if we apply it in a spiritual context?
~~ K
Posted by: K at September 22, 2005 10:55 PM
Richard, I'd say awareness without thought and without any sense of identity.
"Does a newborn child have a mind?" If you mean the person, the physical body of the new born child, it doesn't have a mind, it is the product, the materialization of a mind. The body is in the mind, not the other way around.
You talk about dogs and plants, it's interesting. When I look at it, this is what I see: everything in our world is consciousness, created from the point of pure consciousness and existing in the different layers (koshas)- bliss, ego, mind, energy, physical body. Even plants, animals and objects are expressions of this sequence of creation. The difference lies entirely in the degree of awareness, in how aware consciousness is of its own existence.
So, creation expands from the point of being to the infinite expressions of the physical realm, like an exhalation, while awareness of being goes inward, from awareness of physicality to awareness of being, like an inhalation. As they say, the universe curbs back on itself.
The awareness of objects, plants and animals is open only to the lower levels of the physical kosha. They exist on all levels, but are not even aware or barely aware of their physical existence (objects are not at all aware while animals are more and more conscious, depending on how evolved they are). Human beings are fully aware of their physical existence, and many have even opened up to the higher koshas.
So, when you ask if a dog has beliefs, I'd say that no, a dog doesn't have beliefs in the same way a human being does, but that a dog is still a manifestation of the mind. A dog is not aware of the mind and functions according to reflexes and conditioning that are programmed in all life and are meant to sustain physical existence (for example, the collective "bird mind" tells birds how to migrate). These are not beliefs, but life supporting built- in reflexes.
The belief systems of human beings are necessary, because we function much more from our mind level. As I see it, beliefs are a tool for changing physical reality we have acquired as soon as we collectively became more aware of our mind. Animals are not capable of consciously changing their physical reality from the mind level, but we are. Right now, human beings are still quite confused about beliefs, mind and the way we create reality, still perceiving that the mind is a product of the body, or that minds are separate. But the more we become aware, the more our perception will change.
Posted by: Aurora at September 23, 2005 02:10 AM
Dear friends,
Q:
1. Do weeds have a purpose?
2. What creates a weed, not understanding their purpose, or is it a projection of our mind?
3. Indeed, could weeds have a purpose beyond what we commonly think. And how so, if we apply it in a spiritual context?
A:
1. All the phenomenae occuring in the Maya reality, have none meaning other than the meaning you give it,
Vedanta, Neale, Deepak
2.
or is it a projection of our mind?
- Bingo! the self curving back into itself and..
re-creating itself? putting attention to different aspects of itself? like the macro-cosmos the micro?
3.
How can we use weeds in spiritual context?
- contrast
- karmic conditioning
- like a omen that your...needs gardening?
- for fun, play and recreational purposes
Anthony Robbins, on weeds, ah, onther time,
Love, Passion and the zen of gardening ;)

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 05:51 AM
The question that I ponder about,
hhmnn...woman..princesses...;)
and why do capricorns have to be the most stupborn of all signs?
and why did I have to tover so many of them in my life?
And why is there a Jane in the Peter Pan fairytale?
and who invited Cupido?
and Tinkelbell, busy, I presume?
Disney´s Return to Neverland,
An all new adventure, only in cinemas,
or your imagination, or your (inner) child?
http://disney.go.com/vault/archives/characters/peterpan/peterpan.html
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/
http://www.miramax.com/findingneverland

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 06:14 AM
Marek,
The first thing I said about you:
You think too much & you quote too many.
When are you going to quote youself?
Now, finally you show your real self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am glad! Some wise man says he never understand woman. I am real stupid & I am a woman. I never understand myself.
There is this famous London pub, you know!
See you there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 23, 2005 06:15 AM
haha,
Love, Tyan,
Maybe a good idea..;)
Peter Pan,
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 06:23 AM
Do weeds have a purpose???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
What an intelligent question!!!!
Does a stupid woman like Tyan have a purpose?
Richard??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Are you trying to replace Mr. Chopra?
Posted by: Tyan at September 23, 2005 06:29 AM
Dear Tyan,
don´t you know..
"You were created to be completely loved and completely lovable for your whole life."
All of us need to believe that we are loved and lovable. We began life with confidence on both points, bathed in a mother's love and swaddled in our own innocence. Love was never in question, but over time our certainty clouded. When you look at yourself today, can you still make the two statements every infant could if it had the words?
I am completely loved.
I am completely lovable.
Few people can, for looking at yourself honestly you see flaws that make you less than completely lovable and less than perfectly loved. In many ways this seems right to you, for perfect love is supposedly not of this world. Yet in a deeper sense, what you call flaws are really just the scars of hurts and wounds accumulated over a lifetime. When you look in the mirror, you think you are looking at yourself realistically, but your mirror doesn't reveal the truth that endures despite all hurt:
You were created to be completely loved and completely lovable for your whole life.
In a way it is amazing that you do not realize this..;)
Path to Love
Posted by: lonely guy in a London pub at September 23, 2005 07:00 AM
At this very moment, weeds are growing close to my rose plants in my back yard. They are growing fast and well because I did put some rose food around the rose plants. This was before there were any weeds around them. The weeds are now almost as big as the rose plants. I see them everyday but I am not able to pull them because they seem so healthy and happy and I say to myself why should I be partial to the rose plants. So, they are growing! When winter comes they will probably die. Next spring, the rose plants will come back. The weeds may or may not because the maintenance people come and clean the yard. So, I will see. To Nature, they are all plants, and it is all life, there is no distinction between one plant or another. I think what we call a weed has exactly the same 'purpose' as the rose plant.
Posted by: Syamala at September 23, 2005 09:43 AM
depends on who the observer is,
the criteria,
and the intention or desire,
so to speak dharma,
Love,
Posted by: lonely guy in a London pub at September 23, 2005 11:52 AM
We have been using the words awareness, consciousness, and mind sometimes interchangeably and sometimes with different meanings. That is why the need to refer to "pure consciousness" arose. Then came the need for "defining" pure consciousness as opposed to what? consciousness?. There is an advantage to making some definitions and sticking to them. It provides clarity.
Does a new born child have a mind? Does a plant have a mind? Does an insect have a mind? Yes, they all do. Every living thing has a mind and a physical body. On the other hand, a stone has NO mind. No lifeless object has a mind. Here, the word mind I use spans the Manomaya and Vigyanamaya Koshas.
Mind is the difference between the living and the lifeless. Although pure consciousness is in and out of everything in the universe, we think that the stone is not conscious or not aware (as Aurora puts it). After all, a stone and a dog are both embedded in the all pervading pure consciousness and pure consciousness is in them both. What is different in a stone versus a dog? A dog feels pain when it is hurt and a stone does not (I guess this can be verified scientifically). A stone has no thoughts, no feelings, no emotions, no beliefs, etc. These are all part of the subtle body, the software; but none of them are part of pure consciousness. The stone is a physical object and has no subtle body interacting with it whereas every living being has a subtle body and a physical body (the software and hardware) interacting with each other. This interaction allows living beings to respond interactively to the environment in a way, which is perceived by us as being conscious or intelligent. The level of intelligence or level of consciousness (the phrase in use on this website) depends upon both the level of evolution of the physical body and that of the subtle body. In reality, the subtle body (an accumulation of memories) is not "conscious" either. That is why the mind is also a tool. It can be changed and influenced. Only pure consciousness is conscious and provides the background for the entire show. Mind evolves. Physical body evolves. Pure consciousness does not change. It is the same for ever and ever.
Posted by: Syamala at September 23, 2005 12:25 PM
lonely guy,
You are right. I should say that the rose plant and the weed both have the same purpose from the point of view of the rose plant and the weed. They both want to grow. From our viewpoint, the rose plant is beautiful and the weed is useless. Once again, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
Posted by: Syamala at September 23, 2005 12:37 PM
Falling in love feels like an accidental occurrence to many people, but in spiritual terms it is not--it is the entrance point to love's journey. Romance has several distinct phases of its own for us to explore--attraction, infatuation, courtship, and intimacy--each partaking of a special spiritual significance.´-
too..;)
it´s all subjective, baby!
Love, Passion,
Ps. I don´t ´do´ lonely-ness..;)!,
and coming from the land of abundance, applepie in particular, Poland..well..a gentleman can make an offer, the lady just can´t refuse..;)
but that´s too all subjective..;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 01:11 PM
http://girlsinmylife.blogspot.com/
http://appeltaart.blogspot.com/
signs?
I'm not sure of what I see
Cupid don't fuck with me
Are you tellin' me this is a sign?
She lookin' in my eyes
Noticin' no other guys
Are you telling me this is a sign?
Ooh
(Bridge)
Don't think about it
Boy leave her alone
Nig, you ain't no G
She likes my tone my cologne
and the way I roll
You ain't no G
It's legit
You know it's a hit
When the Neptunes and Doggy Dogg full of spit
You know we is in Tune with the season
Come here baby, tell me why you leavin'?
Tell me if it's weed that you need
If you wanna breathe
I got the best weed, minus seeds
Ain't nobody trippin VIP they can't get in
If something goes wrong then you know...
(Chorus)
I'm not sure of what I see
Cupid don't fuck wit me
Are you tellin' me this is a sign?
She lookin' in my eyes
Noticin' no other guys
Are you telling me this is a sign?
Ooh
(Bridge)
Don't think about it
Boy leave her alone (Ohhh)
Nig, you ain't no G
She likes my tone my cologne
and the way I roll
You ain't no G
Now you steppin' with a G from Los Angeles
Where the helicopters got cameras
Just to get a glimpse of our chucks and our khakis and our bouncing cars
You with your friend, right?
Yeah
She ain't tryin' to bring up on her man, right?
No
Shit, she ain't gotta be in a distance
She can get high all in an instant.
(Chorus)
I'm not sure of what I see
Cupid don't fuck wit me
Are you tellin' me this is a sign?
She lookin' in my eyes
Noticin' no other guys
Are you telling me this is a sign?
Ooh
(Bridge)
Don't think about it
Boy leave her alone
Nig, you ain't no G
She likes my tone my cologne
and the way I roll
You ain't no G
Mami, Mamasita
Have you ever flown a G-five
From London to Ibiza
You gotta have Cape Town
You'll have Sundaes, wit chikitas
You'll see Venus, and Serena in the Wimbledon Arena
And I can take care of you
(Chorus)
I'm not sure of what I see
Cupid don't fuck wit me
Are you tellin' me this is a sign?
She lookin' in my eyes
Noticin' no other guys
Are you telling me this is a sign?
Ooh
(Bridge)
Don't think about it
Boy leave her alone
Nig, you ain't no G
She likes my tone my cologne
and the way I roll
You ain't no G
Nigga don't be young and foolish
You don't know what you're doing
You don't know what you've lost until she's gone (gone)
She got pretty face, drove you wild
But you ain't have that Snoop Doggy Dogg Style
(Chorus)
I'm not sure of what I see
Cupid don't fuck wit me
Are you tellin' me this is a sign?
She lookin' in my eyes
Never seen no other guys
Are you telling me this is a sign?
Ooh
Justin Timberlake lyrics - Signs (with Snoop Dogg and Charlie Wilson)
http://signssignssigns.blogspot.com/
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 01:30 PM
DARA:
You are not allowing your "existence slip away without fully appreciating, fine tuning and realizing the full potential that each of us is endowed with."
At this moment you are participating in the realization of your full potential and sharing that awakening. Where you have been at, are at and will be at are all exactly as it should be.
Yesterday and today I have been moving through space and time with the slightest of easy like the daring young man on the flying trapeze. Life is effortless and I find my critical judgments in a state of suspension. All is exactly as it should be.
I attribute this, to a large extent, to the interactions on this website.
WEEDS:
I used to be an avid weeder. Pull them with something like disgust. For a reason not apparent to me I decided to let the weeds grow along side my flower garden this summer. Not only did my flowers thrive with their nearby neighbors but the weeds eventually flower with some incredibly complimentary flowers of their own.
RICHARD:
Let me know when you get ready to go. I may join you for a leg of your journey.
Posted by: Laurence Peter Brown at September 23, 2005 01:53 PM
SYAMALA:
According to your definition of "mind" I would say that plants do not posses a "mind".
I may be misunderstanding your concept of mind.
Maybe you could spell out the differences between mind, consciousness and pure consciousness,
Posted by: Laurence Peter Brown at September 23, 2005 02:03 PM
Over And Over (Feat. Tim McGraw) Lyrics
Cause its all in my head
I think about it over and over again
And I can't keep picturing you with him
And it hurts so bad, yeah
Cause it's all in my head
I think about it over and over again
I replay it over and over again
And I can't take it yeah I can't shake it
Nooo
I can't wait to see you
Want to see if you still got that look in your eyes
That one you had for me before we said our goodbyes
And it's a shame that we gotta spend our time
Being mad about the same things
Over and over again
About the same things
Over and over again
Ohh
But I think she's leavin
Ooh man she's leavin
I don't know what else to do
(I Can't go on not loving you)
Cause its all in my head
I think about it over and over again
And I can't keep picturing you with him
And it hurts so bad, yeah
Cause its all in my head
I think about it over and over again
I replay it over and over again (yeah)
And I can't take it (yeah) I can't shake it
Nooo
I remember the day you left
I remember the last breath you took right in front of me
When you said that u would leave
I was too damn stubborn to try to stop you or say anything
But I see clearly now
And this choice I made keeps playing in my head
Over and over again
Playin my head
Over and over again
Ohh
I think she's leavin
Ooh man she's leavin
I don't know what else to do
(I Can't go on not loving you)
Cause its all in my head
I think about it over and over again
And I can't keep picturing you with him
And it hurts so bad, yeah
Cause its all in my head
I think about it over and over again
I replay it over and over again
And I can't take it I can't shake it
Nooo
[Now that I've realized that I'm going down
From all this pain you've put me through
Everytime I close my eyes I lock it down
I can't go on not loving you]
Cause its all in my head
I think about it over and over again
And I can't keep picturing you with him
And it hurts so bad, yeah
Cause its all in my head
I think about it over and over again
I replay it over and over again
And I can't take it I can't shake it
Nooo

uh uh uh uh
uh uh uh uh
uh uh uh uh
uh uh uh uh
uh uh uh uh
uh
Over and Over again
Over and Over again
Cause it's all in my head
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 02:06 PM
Dilemma?
ellen..
je mag me hebben meisje..;)
[Nelly]
uh-uh
check'it check'it
uh-uh-uh
[Kelly]
I, love you and I, need you
Nelly I, love you, I do
Need you
[Chorus]
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you (uh-huh)
Even when I'm with my boo,
Boy, ya know I'm crazy over you
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you,
even when I'm with my boo,
Ya know I'm crazy over you
[Nelly]
Uh-uh-uh-uh
I met this chick and she just moved right up the block from me
And(uh) she got the hots for me, the finest thing i've never seen
But oh, no, no, she's got a man and a sun joe doe
But that's o.k. cause I, wait for my cue and just listen, play my position like
a short stop, pick up everything mommy hittin
And in no time, i'm gonna make this friend mine
And that's for sure
Cause I, I never been the type to break-up a happy home
But(uh) somethin' bout baby gurl, I just can't leave alone
So tell me ma what's it gonna be she said----
[Kelly]
You don't know what you mean to me
[Chorus]
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you,
Even when I'm with my boo,
Boy ya know I'm crazy over you
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you,
Even when I'm with my boo,
Ya know I'm crazy over you
(Nelly)
I see a lot and you lookin'
I never say a word,
I know how niggas thought, i can trip in and hurt up on their girls
And there's no way-ay Nelly go fight over no dame-ame, (I
ain't fightin ova no dame) as you can see
But(uh) I like your steeze, your style, your whole demeanor,
The way you come through and holla and swoop me in his two-seater
Now that's gangsta and I got special ways to thank ya
Don't you forget it
But(uh) it ain't that easy for you to pack up and leave him
But(uh) you and me got ties for different reasons
I respect that
And right before I turned to leave
She said -she said-she said-
(Kelly)
You don't know what you mean to me (come on)
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you,
Even when I'm with my boo,
Boy ya know I'm crazy over you
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you,
Even when I'm with my boo,
Ya know I'm crazy over you
(Nelly)
Sing it for me K
Kelly(Nelly)
And I love you,(uh)
And I need you, Nelly I love you, (come on, girl)
I do, and it's more than you'll ever know,
Boy it's for sure, you can always count on my love,
Forever more (yeah)
(Nelly)
East coast, i know ya shakin right
Down south, I know ya your bouncin right(eh eh)
West Coast, I know ya walkin right
coz (You dont know what you mean to me)
Mid west, i see ya swingin right
(Kelly)
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you,
Even when I'm with my boo,
Boy ya know I'm over about you
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you,
Even when I'm with my boo,
Ya know I'm crazy over you
(Nelly)
(yeah, yeah)
East coast, I know ya shakin' right
Down south, I know ya bouncin' right
West coast, I know ya walkin' right
(You don't know what you mean to me)
Mid west, I see ya swingin right
(Nelly)
East coast, ya still shakin right
Down south, I see your bouncin right (dirty, dirty now)
West Coast, I know ya walkin right (coz)
(You don't know what you mean to me..)
Mid west, your still swingin right
(Kelly)
No matter what I do,wow
All I think about is you,
Even when I'm with my boo,
Boy ya know I'm crazy over you
No matter what I do,
All I think about is you,
Even when I'm with my boo,
Ya know I'm crazy over you
(Nelly)
(yeah, yeah)
East coast, I know ya shakin' right
Down south, I know ya bouncin' right
West coast, I know ya walkin' right
(You don't know what you mean to me)
Mid west, I see ya swingin right
(Nelly)
East coast, ya still shakin right
Down south, I see your bouncin right
West Coast, I know ya walkin right (coz)
(You don't know what you mean to me..)
Mid west, your still swingin right
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 02:23 PM
No Letting Go Lyrics
wayne or was it wonder?
100% Legit..;)
Verse 1
Got somebody she's a beauty
Very special really and truly
Takes good care of me like it's her duty
Won't you ride by my side night and day
Chorus
No lettting go No holding back
Because you are my lady
When I'm with you its all about that
Girl I, am so glad we've made it
No letting go No holding back
No holding Back noooooooo yeah
When I'm with you it's all about that
All a that yeah yeah
Verse 2
They say good things must come to an end
But I'm optimistic about being friends
Though I made you cry by my doings
With Keisha oh Anisha but that
Was back then
Chorus
No lettting go No holding back
Because you are my lady
When I'm with you its all about that
Girl I, am so glad we've made it
No letting go No holding back
No holding Back nooooooooo yeah
When I'm with you it's all about that
All a that yeah yeah
(Bridge)
Really appreciate you loving me
After all that we've been thru
Really appreciate you loving me
All times,time
Repeat Verse 1
Got somebody she's a beauty
Very special really and truly
Takes good care of me like it's her duty
Want you right by my side night and day
Repeat Chorus Till Fade
No lettting go No holding back
Because you are my lady
When I'm with you its all about that
Girl I, am so glad we've made it
No letting go No holding back
No holding Back nooooooo yeah
When I'm with you it's all about that
All a that all a that
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 02:32 PM
Weeds mean lots to me.
I have a large garden in my backyard. I like flowers. Without weeds, I would never have this passion for the colourful.
Every morning, I spend half an hour or so pulling out weeds in my garden. I never weep for them.
But I appreciate the fact that they make the flowers stand out & keep me healthy!!!
Without Stupidity, there is no Intelligence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guys, tonight is the night!
See you in that London pub!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 23, 2005 03:24 PM
MAREK DARIUSZ PODSIADLO:
Why don't you start your own blog? You could post all these words that belong to others on your site and then post links to your site here.
It would allow people like me that already know the lyrics to most of the songs you post to find the posts that are relevant without having to mindlessly scroll through your posts. If someone wants to read the lyrics you post they can follow the links you post. Also you could get an idea of the value of posting other peoples lyrics from the amount of resposes you would illicite.
One other point. Due to the way you have chosen to presence yourself here I decided weeks ago not even to check out this Dr. Wayne Dyer guy. Could you possibly be more of a demotivator?
Sorry but not hearing anything gets old after awhile.
Posted by: Laurence Peter Brown at September 23, 2005 03:54 PM
Lonely guy in a London pub,
Stupid as it sounds & I waste two seconds of my precious life to respond to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My favourite quote:-
"GOD give us life to enjoy, no more & no less."
I think we are on the same wave length.
Let us enjoy a beer or two in the pub.
Those guys are fighting real hard out there.
They are not allowed in!!!
Posted by: Tyan at September 23, 2005 05:42 PM
Some weeds can cure disease. They actually have a purpose. They produce chemical compounds that serve no purpose to the plant but fit lick a key in a lock in the human body, for whihc they were designed.
Kudzu can prevent binge drinking for example.
Dandelions are very pretty, why are they a weed? I think the herbicidal chemical companies promote the weed perceptions.
The pharmaceutical industry doesn't want you to know about these unpatentable drugs in plants. In fact they try to alter the natural molecule and patent it.
Laurence I will let you know regardng the journey.
Marek, I don't read the lyrics either and find them to be a waste of real estate, but I am intersted in what comes from your own mind in the present moment.
Aurora, I think the newborn baby is pure awareness and has no mind. Dogs are very happy, isn't that the goal? Perhaps the final and greatest incarnation is that of the Dog. It is God backwards, in disguise.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 23, 2005 07:26 PM
Peter,
I will try my best to answer your question because it helps me to understand.
I think biologists did prove that plants feel pain when pricked, as opposed to a stone which feels nothing when hit. So there is some subtle stuff in plants too and that is what I call mind.
A primary component of mind is desire. Desire is subtle stuff. Every living being wants to live and does not want to die. Although animals cannot express this desire to live in so many words, we know they want to live. For example, a mouse runs to hide when it sees a cat. So also, plants want to live as well (I believe it and many others do too but I do not know whether there is a scientific proof). Some plants have thorns providing them a defensive mechanism.
A computer can play a game of chess and win against very good human chess players whom we regard as intelligent because the chess game does require a lot of strategy. So the computer is intelligent in that sense. But it has NO desire to win. When I said this to some friends (more than one), their immediate reaction was "the computer does not know, how can it have desire?" So, is the computer intelligent or dumb?
Figuring out strategies as well as desire are features of mind. We may say strategising is a mechanical feature and desire is a feature characteristic of life because desire cannot be produced in a lifeless machine.
Well, desire and knowing are NOT the same. In the video game example of one of my previous posts, I did not have a desire to win or lose the game when I played with my children but I was not dumb. There is no desire in pure consciousness and
that is the difference between mind and pure consciousness.
As regards, the words consciousness and pure consciousness: Ravi and I use consciousness with the same meaning, which is the same as the "pure consciousness" that Aurora refered to. On the other hand, on this site, the word consciousness is used in phrases like evolution of consciousness and levels of consciousness. I would ue mind instead of consciousness in such phrases.
Consciousness is a difficult topic and that is why there are so many books on it and that is why we discuss it again and again. It cannot be explained in a few words. So here is the disclaimer: It is quite possible that I am not clear.
Posted by: Syamala at September 23, 2005 07:55 PM
Peter,
I will try my best to answer your question because it helps me to understand.
I think biologists did prove that plants feel pain when pricked, as opposed to a stone which feels nothing when hit. So there is some subtle stuff in plants too and that is what I call mind.
A primary component of mind is desire. Desire is subtle stuff. Every living being wants to live and does not want to die. Although animals cannot express this desire to live in so many words, we know they want to live. For example, a mouse runs to hide when it sees a cat. So also, plants want to live as well (I believe it and many others do too but I do not know whether there is a scientific proof). Some plants have thorns providing them a defensive mechanism.
A computer can play a game of chess and win against very good human chess players whom we regard as intelligent because the chess game does require a lot of strategy. So the computer is intelligent in that sense. But it has NO desire to win. When I said this to some friends (more than one), their immediate reaction was "the computer does not know, how can it have desire?" So, is the computer intelligent or dumb?
Figuring out strategies as well as desire are features of mind. We may say strategising is a mechanical feature and desire is a feature characteristic of life because desire cannot be produced in a lifeless machine.
Well, desire and knowing are NOT the same. In the video game example of one of my previous posts, I did not have a desire to win or lose the game when I played with my children but I was not dumb. There is no desire in pure consciousness and
that is the difference between mind and pure consciousness.
As regards, the words consciousness and pure consciousness: Ravi and I use consciousness with the same meaning, which is the same as the "pure consciousness" that Aurora refered to. On the other hand, on this site, the word consciousness is used in phrases like evolution of consciousness and levels of consciousness. I would ue mind instead of consciousness in such phrases.
Consciousness is a difficult topic and that is why there are so many books on it and that is why we discuss it again and again. It cannot be explained in a few words. So here is the disclaimer: It is quite possible that I am not clear.
Posted by: Syamala at September 23, 2005 07:56 PM
That should be fit like a key, for which they were designed. I should proof read better I guess before I click post.
Tyan did you ever get a look at this collection regarding cancer?
http://www.intelegen.com/Cancer/CancerInfo.htm
Read and understand this and you will be very knowledgable.
If you can manage to get your self on the Internet and post a comment here, you can't qualify as stupid. There isn't a one of us that doesn't commit a small instance of stupidity from time to time, so you cannot claim a special status where that is concerned.
You might ask yourself what benefit do you get from thinking that? Does it give you an excuse?
I can tell you this whoever used to tell you that would do so because they did not have the intelligence or understanding to communicate somthing of substance. If others have a difference of perception or expectation some may claim they are stupid, when really it is just that they cannot accept that someone might choose to perceive diffently then they, or they simply do not try to understand or even want to understand another point of view.
There is ignorance of course, both natural and that which is deliberate or a result of a lack of effort to understand. The natural kind is quickly eliminated by teaching and transferring of intelligence but does not imply a lack of intelligence. The second kind is a choice and does show a lack of intelligence.
At least that is what I suppose.
Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 23, 2005 08:01 PM
Peter,
A correction. In the previous post, I should say: There is no desire in pure consciousness and
that is A (not the) difference between mind and pure consciousness.
Posted by: Syamala at September 23, 2005 08:03 PM
Syamala and Richard, thank you for beautiful posts and an interesting discussion. I agree with you, Syamala, it is difficult to talk about these things without using the same definitions... but then, how easy is it to define the concepts we're talking about? :)
I love to look into these things, and I could go on and on talking with you guys, about mountains and rocks and lakes that are containers of memories and emotions and are fully "alive", about the way our own level of perception makes them "inanimate", about the way human beings are starting to intuit a new perception when they talk about nanotechnology and "intelligent clothes" or "self-healing walls"... and so on :) I look forward to meeting you in other places on this blog and enjoy your views and intelligent questions.
Posted by: Aurora at September 23, 2005 09:59 PM
sorry guys..it´s a love and perhaps a Dharma thing..;) just trying to raise the awarness,
for a certain special..;)
http://www.ellie3.hyves.nl/
and myself,
http://marekpodsiadlo.hyves.nl/
Love, Passion!
Ps. I already started 20 something Blogs..;)
I have so much...gian shakti or love to give..?
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 11:19 PM
it´s sooo tough sometimes..;)
getting people on the path to..love, spiritual transformation..enlightement..synchrodestiny,
especially when..life is what happens,
when you´re making other plans?..;)
Love, and an adventure,
Peter Pan
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 23, 2005 11:43 PM
Hi Aurora,
Yes, I agree - the discussion and insights here are incredible!

After reading your post, I remembered once reading a heartfelt letter, written by Chief Seattle, sent to the President of the U.S. - in response to 'selling' land.
I know this is long. But......oh so beautiful and for me - resonates Truth.
Blessings to all, K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The President in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land. But how can you buy or sell the sky? the land? The idea is strange to us. If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?
Every part of the earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every meadow, every humming insect. All are holy in the memory and experience of my people.
We know the sap which courses through the trees as we know the blood that courses through our veins. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters. The bear, the deer, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the dew in the meadow, the body heat of the pony, and man all belong to the same family.
The shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water, but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you our land, you must remember that it is sacred. Each glossy reflection in the clear waters of the lakes tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father.
The rivers are our brothers. They quench our thirst. They carry our canoes and feed our children. So you must give the rivers the kindness that you would give any brother.
If we sell you our land, remember that the air is precious to us, that the air shares its spirit with all the life that it supports. The wind that gave our grandfather his first breath also received his last sigh. The wind also gives our children the spirit of life. So if we sell our land, you must keep it apart and sacred, as a place where man can go to taste the wind that is sweetened by the meadow flowers.
Will you teach your children what we have taught our children? That the earth is our mother? What befalls the earth befalls all the sons of the earth.
This we know: the earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. All things are connected like the blood that unites us all. Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.
One thing we know: our God is also your God. The earth is precious to him and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its creator.
Your destiny is a mystery to us. What will happen when the buffalo are all slaughtered? The wild horses tamed? What will happen when the secret corners of the forest are heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills is blotted with talking wires? Where will the thicket be? Gone! Where will the eagle be? Gone! And what is to say goodbye to the swift pony and then hunt? The end of living and the beginning of survival.
When the last red man has vanished with this wilderness, and his memory is only the shadow of a cloud moving across the prairie, will these shores and forests still be here? Will there be any of the spirit of my people left?
We love this earth as a newborn loves its mother's heartbeat. So, if we sell you our land, love it as we have loved it. Care for it, as we have cared for it. Hold in your mind the memory of the land as it is when you receive it. Preserve the land for all children, and love it, as God loves us.
As we are part of the land, you too are part of the land. This earth is precious to us. It is also precious to you.
One thing we know - there is only one God. No man, be he Red man or White man, can be apart. We ARE all brothers after all."
Posted by: K at September 23, 2005 11:53 PM
One other point. Due to the way you have chosen to presence yourself here I decided weeks ago not even to check out this Dr. Wayne Dyer guy. Could you possibly be more of a demotivator?
- Not meaning to do that, but you have to know the Dr. Wayne Dyer is one of the greatest because
he can combine humor in spirituality, he calls it higher self mostly, and the ability to relavate, my first spiritual teacher, been a big fan since my 15-16th year, but what the living starlights he meant with ´manifesting the soulmate you can´t stand´ beats me! probaply a joke I don´t get, nevertheless, he is fantastic!
check him out!

from an interview:
MT: I want to take love into its aspect in relationship, because that's where I think most of us experience love. You wrote that partners are mirrors of ourselves, and so in falling in love we're falling in love with some aspect of ourselves.
DC: Yes, when we find delight in another person, we've actually found something joyful inside ourselves that involves a shift in our awareness, a shift in our perception, because the same person is not necessarily attractive to other people.
In relationship, whenever we're drawn to someone or repelled by someone, they're both mirrors of the self. We're attracted to people in whom we find traits that we want or desire in our own selves. And we are repelled by people in whom we find traits that we're denying in ourselves. So relationship is a true mirror of where we are in our evolution in consciousness.
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 12:40 AM
what he meant was, if I remember correctly,
that sometimes, they are there to learn us a powerfull lesson,
I used the quote out of context for fun lovin´reasons, don´t sue me!*
* like h!", sue my lovely fanny!, I kick your ass in court!...see..there I go again..;)
Love, Passion, lightheartedness and the Law of Karma ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 01:04 AM
´Due to the way you have chosen to presence yourself here..´
- was that an Ego or Spirit need in the Law of Giving, a smile, joy and or maybe a good laugh?
;)
Love,
Ps. Like I care..whatever the world thinks of me..I think that´s called..internal referance..?
Ps. Intelectual Property..critics..;)
Ps. C U in court! ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 01:13 AM
It´s a trademark...;) you got to have, a big mouth..;)
Havn´t you seen A Few Good Men? or read the Art Of War? The Book of Five Rings?
´A battle is won or lost, before it takes place´
Guess who? and how old this quote is?
and what was really meant by it?
ah, wel, I´m in a lecture state of mind...?;),
Disraeli: ´Nothing can resist a human will, that puts it´s exsistance on the purpose´
But the key is to de-escalate, the how is the art, before...well,
Peace is the Way, ;)
Love,
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 01:32 AM
1.
http://www.questionofhonor.com/
2.
http://www.adamzamoyski.com/
3.
http://www.krykiet.com/
Na zdrowie! ;)
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 01:38 AM
Childhood living is easy to do
The things you wanted I bought them for you
Graceless lady, you know who I am,
You know I can't let you slide through my hands
Wild Horses, Couldn't drag me away,
Wild, wild horses, Couldn't drag me away...
I watched you suffer a dull, aching pain
Now you decided to show me the same
No sweeping exits or offstage lines,
Can make me feel bitter or treat you unkind
Wild Horses, Couldn't drag me away,
Wild, wild horses, Couldn't drag me away...
I know I dreamed you a sin and a lie,
I have my freedom but I don't have much time
Faith has been broken tears must be cried,
Let's do some living after we die
Wild Horses, Couldn't drag me away,
Wild, wild horses, We'll ride them someday
Wild Horses, Couldn't drag me away,
Wild, wild horses, We'll ride them someday
http://www.elyrics.net/go/r/rolling-stones-lyrics/wild-horses-lyrics/
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 01:48 AM
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where
he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
—Martin Luther King, Jr.
Civil-Rights Leader
1929 - 1968
http://www.lucidcafe.com/
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 02:05 AM
To a capricorn princess ;)
Keep on running, keep on hiding
One fine day I'm gonna be the one to make you understand
Oh yeah I'm gonna be your man
Keep on running, running from my arms
One fine day I'm gonna be the one to make you understand
Oh yeah I'm gonna be your man
Everyone keeps talking about me, make me feel so bad
Everyone is laughing at me, make me feel so sad
So I keep on running hey hey hey
All right
Keep on running, running from my arms
One fine day I'm gonna be the one to make you understand
Oh yeah I'm gonna be your man (hey hey hey)
Everyone keeps talking about me, make me feel so bad
Everyone is laughing at me, make me feel so sad (hey hey hey)
So I keep on running
Keep on running, running from my arms
One fine day I'm gonna be the one to make you understand
Oh yeah I'm gonna be your man
Hey come on
Make me feel so good
I wanna be your man
All Right
Come on baby
I wanna be your man
You know you make me feel so good
SPENCER DAVIS GROUP
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 02:12 AM
http://www.misspoland.com.pl/
cos pieknego..;)
Love, passion and a smile..
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 02:48 AM
I´m a scorpio, can I help it..;)
http://www.astrology.com/
They may be most persuasive orators and find fulfillment as diplomats or preachers and, if they make the Church their profession, their inner intensity can express itself in the spiritual fervor of the mystic or the thaumaturgy.
Scorpio is the symbol of sex and Scorpios are passionate lovers, the most sensually energetic of all the signs. For them, union with the beloved is a sacrament, an "outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace.".
Their overriding urge in loving is to use their power to penetrate beyond themselves and to lose themselves sexually in their partners in an almost mystical ecstasy, thus discovering the meaning of that union which is greater than individuality, and is a marriage of the spirit as well as of flesh. They are thus capable of the greatest heights of passionate transport...
;)

Artist: Scorpions Lyrics
Song: Send Me An Angel Lyrics
100% Legal MP3 Downloads
The wise man said just walk this way
To the dawn of the light
The wind will blow into your face
As the years pass you by
Hear this voice from deep inside
It's the call of your heart
Close your eyes and your will find
The passage out of the dark
Here I am
Will you send me an angel
Here I am
In the land of the morning star
The wise man said just find your place
In the eye of the storm
Seek the roses along the way
Just beware of the thorns
Here I am
Will you send me an angel
Here I am
In the land of the morning star
The wise man said just raise your hand
And reach out for the spell
Find the door to the promised land
Just believe in yourself
Hear this voice from deep inside
It's the call of your heart
Close your eyes and your will find
The passage out of the dark
Here I am
Will you send me an angel
Here I am
In the land of the morning star
Here I am
Will you send me an angel
Here I am
In the land of the morning star
The hottest songs from Scorpions
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 02:57 AM
See the stone set in your eyes
See the thorn twist in your side
I wait for you
Sleight of hand and twist of fate
On a bed of nails she makes me wait
And I wait without you
With or without you
With or without you
Through the storm we reach the shore
You give it all but I want more
And I’m waiting for you
With or without you
With or without you
I can’t live
With or without you
And you give yourself away
And you give yourself away
And you give
And you give
And you give yourself away
My hands are tied
My body bruised, she’s got me with
Nothing to win and
Nothing left to lose
And you give yourself away
And you give yourself away
And you give
And you give
And you give yourself away
With or without you
With or without you
I can’t live
With or without you
With or without you
With or without you
I can’t live
With or without you
With or without you
U2
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/u/u2/141437.html
Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 24, 2005 03:27 AM

http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/09/leela_part_2_ca.html

LEELA (Part 2): Can a Life Be a Dance?
posted by Deepak Chopra on September 13, 2005 at 11:07 AM

Indians love the concept of seeing creation as a dance between Shiva and Shakti.

It appeals to our sensuous side, and there is a certain maturity to accepting that the cosmos may not be linear or mechanical after all. But beyond the pretty imagery, I don't think many people apply the Leela to their own lives. In what way is the dance of gods and goddesses relevant to you and me?

The practical side of Leela is that besides being a pretty image, it tells us that design is imbedded in chaos. When you are centered in your own dance, this becomes self-evident, because there is no such thing as living randomly. From our center radiates desire, action, process--patterns are formed from the cellular level of the body and the subtle mental levels.

Leela tells us that the basic pattern of life is desire. Knowing that, we can accept our desire nature and not try to repress or judge against it.

Leela is also about the qualities inherent in dance: grace, balance, control. This tells us that life itself has those qualities; therefore, we can aspire to them as individuals.

Leela is centered, because it takes focus to dance. From the intent "I want to dance," the whole body must be organized and set in motion. This tells us that intent and centeredness are linked.

So far, we haven't touched on morality. Leela transcends moral codes, and for many people that's a big problem. They cling to the dualistic world because it rigidly dictates right and wrong (this clinging continues despite the many complaints people utter about being straitjacketed in codes of right and wrong).

But the most basic thing about Leela, as about dance itself, is that play is about delight and freedom. Leela is about the delight and freedom of creation, which somehow we have turned into moral strictures, boundaries, and every kind of restriction. When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief. It's such a burden to approach life as a huge responsibility, to constantly worry about moral codes and social judgments.

Once this initial relief wears off, however, a perplexing phase follows in which play seems impossible to achieve. We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably. You can't throw all of this away and simply start to dance. Not entirely. But you can give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life:

--Ease, lack of struggle
--Appreciation
--Grace
--Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
--Joyousness, innate bliss
--Trust in Nature's organizing power
--Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
--Understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.

I don't think I'm extrapolating or have gotten lost in metaphor. Leela reminds us that when Sat Chit Ananda became manifest, they revealed their nature in a dance.


Comments
deepak - u have encapsulated it so brilliantly. When do we forget that life is actually play ? And that play is far more passionate, more focussed, more real than what we call work.

shekhar


Posted by: shekhar at September 13, 2005 11:21 AM

That's awesome the way you explained that, Deepak. I'm going to have to copy it and continue to read over it. I don't want to miss any of what you are saying, because it feels so right to me.
Thanks.
Love, Kristin

Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 13, 2005 11:27 AM

Dearest Deepak . . . hope all is well. Shekhar and Kristin have expressed the beauty of your words . . .thank you for reminding us about the on going dance for love . . .knowingness and bliss . . .an incredible awakening for our souls! Take care . . .love . . .Laila

Posted by: Laila at September 13, 2005 11:48 AM

Deepak,

That was complete..wholesome and very gratifying.I wanted to immediately begin by exercising 'ease,lack of struggle'as of now.

A naging thought arose though with alacrity which is that how do you explain this play of delight and freedom,this dance of grace, balance and control And sat chit anada manifested ,to a hungry stomach? How do you explain to him that intent and centredness are linked?Why would he care? Is the 'chintan manan 'on these existential truths therefore, a prerogative only for the privileged few like us who can devote half a day to verbalising our spiritual concerns?

Would not such an individual, whose reality is staring him starkly in the face, balk at the idea of terming it as Leela! I do not know whether I have made my point. But I work a lot with the under privileged and inadvertently hypothecate their reactions to a given situation more often than I like. Though here I would like to furnish you this information that there is The vippassana meditation centre which is frequented by me and many of these on a regular basis. despite its severe rules of complete Silence for 10days and eating once a day. So its not as if they have resigned themselves to their fate. Constant endeavour to better their next life , is what they tell me is their guiding force. For me its a humbling and joyous experience to be around these great souls. . 'understanding that your life has a purpose that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos'

Thank You Deepak

Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 12:10 PM

I once had the immense privilege of teaching a group of 8 year old girls some basic dance & movement steps for a school presentation. At the end of each session I gave them time for "free dance". I would play rock music, jazz, classical and my favourite part was when I would say, "imagine you're a ballerina". It was during this time that all of the awkwardness, anxiety and tension of learning the required steps for their presentation would drop and they became graceful, beautiful and even sensuous.

I realize that the dance of Leela is metaphoric but I think the physical dance releases something deep, primal, even archetypal in us. I try to get some time to dance every day to remind me of that.

Love, Sheba

Posted by: Sheba at September 13, 2005 12:14 PM

Thanks Deepak. I wonder why it is so hard to let go in spite of knowing the nature of Leela (at least conceptually)?

Posted by: Divya at September 13, 2005 12:34 PM

.
Wow..

Love, passion, and the Law of Least Effort ;)

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 12:41 PM

DEEPAK:

"Once this initial relief wears off, however, a perplexing phase follows in which play seems impossible to achieve. We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably."

I'm feeling that today.

Some one in an earlier post (possibly Leela part one that the ego doesn't like us to participate in activities that would expose it for what it is. Perhaps I'm feeling the "ego blues".

Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:46 PM

Dear Deepak,
Thanks for beautifully explaining Leela and How life can be a Dance.

Love,
Venky

Posted by: Venky at September 13, 2005 12:48 PM

Ease of life? Maybe you don't see reality around you. Life is not about ease --it's about grace towards ourself and others when life is NOT easy.

Posted by: navina at September 13, 2005 12:51 PM

Some one in an earlier post (possibly Leela part one) stated that the ego doesn't like us to participate in activities that would expose it for what it is. Perhaps I'm feeling the "ego blues".

Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:51 PM

NAVINA:

"Life is not about ease --it's about grace towards ourself and others when life is NOT easy."

Could not what you describe been known as Ease of life?

Posted by: A Guy In A Diner (Laurence Peter Brown) at September 13, 2005 12:53 PM

Deepak, you have put it very nicely :-)

Posted by: Krish at September 13, 2005 02:38 PM

Dear Deepak, Wow! Talk about Synchrodestiny! Earlier today, I found myself mired down in the chaos of my life. Then I read,

...it tells us that design is imbedded in chaos. When you are centered in your own dance, this becomes self-evident, because there is no such thing as living randomly. From our center radiates desire, action, process--patterns are formed from the cellular level of the body ...

and I "got" it. Thank you. Namaste.

Ann

Posted by: Ann at September 13, 2005 02:48 PM

By reading these postings and seeing how each one has a different perception of these Hindu truths, I feel somewhat relieved myself. That is to say I no longer feel so stuck, rigidly, in my own perception for some reason. I'm glad this happened because now my I view my intellect as being somehow softer and gentler and my intellectual conceptions no longer matter so much. "The guru can but point the way, the path is one for all, the means to reach the goal must vary with the pilgrim." --Buddhist precept My intellectual conceptions are part of the "means" that I use. There is no way I could give them all to someone else and expect them to receive them. This may not make much sense but it does to me.

Posted by: Sherry at September 13, 2005 03:28 PM

What music do they listen to when they dance?

Perhaps trance?

I think if we could somehow get the whole world to stop what they were doing for one day and simply dance, lets call it a Peace Dance, so that we could have one day without conflict it lead to some unity. We could call it the day the whole world danced.

It would not be associated with any religion just expression of the spirit.

If I could I would buy the beer.

Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 03:32 PM

Deepak,
In part one of the Leela and Dance, you did a great job of defining what Leela is -"Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity."
Both articles are superb. This is what came to my mind about Leela transcending moral codes and our heritage being not moral. I would probably clarify or use different wording. The purpose of Moral code is to prevent human beings from aggressive behaviors and to help achieve some harmony in life in the universe. It does impose restrictions on lives. I agree, while in Leela, one accepts and enjoys all the diverse things in the universe, free from all restrictions. It is not that moral code does not apply to Leela but there is no aggressive intention whatsoever in it and nothing immoral there. (I say this because there were instances of immoral practises in the name of spiritual freedom.)Acceptance of everything in this state probably implies ignoring or forgiving the immoral. Similarly, by "our heritage is not moral" you did not mean that it is immoral but may be some clarification such as "what is right and what is wrong depends on the context, there is no absolute right and absolute wrong" would be helpful.

Posted by: Syamala at September 13, 2005 03:33 PM

I think moral code is a very detrimental thing. It is used to induce shame, guilt, and control.

Sexuality, the life force, is supressed by many "moral codes" this is causing major problems in society.

If we see our self in others there is no need for moral codes. In fact moral code supports the illusion we are separate.

If you want one rule to teach children then teach them to always work to create a good experience for their Self behind every point of view.

There is this concept of the Anti-Christ well I would put moral codes as a product of such a thing, especially since they are so much based on "religion".

Take the Bonobos Tribe for example, they have no moral code and they have a conflict free society.


http://www.newswire.pro/brass_monkey_mystery_linked_to_t.htm



Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 05:04 PM

Deepak, thank you for this. You are constantly enlarging my understanding!

Symala, you suggest that Deepak qualify his statement that "our heritage is not moral" with words to indicate that right and wrong are contextual, that "there is no absolute right and absolute wrong."

What happens if we leave out the word "absolute?" "There is no right and there is no wrong." Where does that leave us?

Posted by: Carol at September 13, 2005 05:27 PM

Hello,
This is beautiful Deepak. Learning about Leela, the dance, brings feminine images to my mind, despite the non-dual nature that it is. Maybe in part because the name sounds female to me, or because I am a woman and thus identify with this dance through a feminine perspective. Is Leela considered to be feminine?

Posted by: Kristie at September 13, 2005 05:42 PM

I wonder when was it that we lost contact we the dance of the Universe ? When we came out of the caves, when we started to organize society around religion and politics, when we abandom the barter system for the currency system?

Posted by: Ramon at September 13, 2005 06:04 PM

-Ease, lack of struggle
-Appreciation
-Grace
-Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
-Joyousness, innate bliss
-Trust in Nature's unorganizing power
-Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
-Understanding that your life has purpose (Dharma)that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.

I had an incredibly spiritual? awakening? enlightening? (I'm not sure what you'd choose to call it) weekend. I have felt an awesome shift in awareness and I believe I experienced all of these points Deepak mentions referring to Leela.
Knowledge and communication are the keys for me.

Deepak, after reading this blog and the positive responses you've gotten I'm feeling "buzzed" again. Thanks to everyone for the wonderful comments.

Gemin


Posted by: Gemin at September 13, 2005 06:38 PM

“But the most basic thing … is that play is about delight and freedom. Leela is about the delight and freedom of creation …. When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief ....

“You can't throw all of this away and simply start to dance. Not entirely. But you can give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life:

--Ease, lack of struggle
--Appreciation
--Grace
--Freedom, particularly the free flow of desire
--Joyousness, innate bliss
--Trust in Nature's organizing power
--Knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance
--Understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.

I don't think I'm extrapolating or have gotten lost in metaphor. Leela reminds us that when Sat Chit Ananda became manifest, they revealed their nature in a dance.” ~ Deepak Chopra

I think I just died and went to heaven :-) Thank you Deepak!

Love,
Char


Posted by: char at September 13, 2005 06:50 PM

Whoa, were we on the same wavelength Char?

Gemin

Posted by: Gemin at September 13, 2005 06:57 PM

"But the most basic thing ... is that play is about delight and freedom ... about the delight and freedom of creation.
When spirituality really clicks in, the first feeling one gets is of immense relief."

Dear Deepak,
Can you find contentment - when spirituality really clicks in. For I find one 'missing' ingredient to the fullfillment of life's experience, is to be able to reside in contentment.

The dictionary description is not satisfactory - I long to 'discover' contentment in the realm that doesn't come and go with desires fullfilled or thwarted.

Does clear awareness - bring lasting contentment? Or consciousness, is the word I often read here in the posts.

And of course, to see this come alive, in my experience, right here, right now.
It would mean alot to me to able to discuss and illuminate this 'concept'.
Thank you so much.
Love,
~~ K


Posted by: K at September 13, 2005 07:28 PM

I think a good example of the dance and no real need for a moral code, and the true nature of humanity can be found on the road. Whenever I have my doubts about people and society I think about this.

Where I live there is a great amount of traffic as I am sure there is in most places. It is true we have traffic lights yet these would not be enough to allow traffic to flow. There are many places were there are not traffic lights. There is nothing to orchestrate the merging of cars into the flow.

There are no laws saying that we must stop and let people out into the flow. There are no laws or rules saying we must make a space so that another can merge into the flow.

Yet people do.

People, who are simply strangers, will stop and let you out into traffic in front of them. They will make a space so you can squeeze into the flow.

I have seen an onramps where it was bumper to bumper and each car will let one car from the ramp into the flow like a perfect dance. Yet there is no written rule. There is no discrimination it does not matter your sex or color or ethnic origin.

It seems that there is something to be said by these phenomena.

Of course there are the exceptions, and 98% of the time when someone cuts me off or is driving very aggressively I say to myself….

Ah I must be late to get somewhere, as I smile and watch myself ahead weave to and fro.


Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 08:10 PM


Deepak, you say:

"We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably."

“And your solution is:

“…..give over a bit of your life every day to what you know to be the true foundation of life: Ease, lack of struggle, appreciation, grace, freedom, particularly the free flow of desire, joyousness, innate bliss, trust in nature's organizing power, knowledge that you are the dancer and the dance, understanding that your life has a purpose (Dharma) that fits into the overall movement of the cosmos.”

Your solution is a way AROUND the problem, after accepting the problem as an inexorable force.

But there is a much better way. It comes NOT from accepting the problem as unstoppable, and NOT on how to get around the problem – but from inquiring into what is causing the problem in the first place.

What causes the problem of being “full of conditioned responses” is the conditioning itself. Conditioning itself is not to be found at the same level as responses. It is found one level deeper than the level of attitudes and intentions; two levels behind the operating level of responses, actions and behaviors. It is found in our conceptual domain.

Conditioning is made up of conceptual objects, such as memories, knowledge and assumptions that were uploaded into us when we were growing up, when we were not in a position to evaluate and choose the conditioning that was being pumped into us. And duality, being a conceptual phenomenon, is also part of the conditioned content.

So instead of considering conditioned responses and the machinery of duality to be unstoppable, we should follow what causes it - to the point BEFORE the machinery of duality begins to roll, by PREVENTING it from starting to roll in the first place.

This is done by developing the serious habit and eventually, expertise, of focusing on and scanning the content of one’s conditioning, evaluating and editing and correcting one’s conditioning, so that the falseness of granularity, the falseness of duality, and the falseness of the ego are all discovered and purged from one’s conceptual system.

Yes, Deepak, life can indeed be a dance.

But dance should not be regarded as a strategy or a solution to the intractable problems of conditioning, duality, and ego.

Dance is not a means around the effects of conditioning, it is the ever increasing manifestation of the dismantling of conditioning.

Dance should be enjoyed freely as the expression of the increasing spontaneity that comes from our liberation from conditioning, duality and ego, which allows us to move ever more with the grace and beauty of our original being – as consciousness and spirit.


Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 13, 2005 09:21 PM


Deepak and other peaceful ones,

What about the "dancer with no beat"-- the toe cruncher or the stiff swaying one? Are these individual expressions of our differences or is this the opposite that exists and needs to exist to make the movements flow.

Are the apprehensions felt in the dance a symbol for the insecurities we hold in living..?

Dancing for many brings up many issues and for some they just dance without a care in the world. Their hearts are at peace and free.

"Move with the vibrations from eternal sounds..
Allowing the music exalted from your soul to run free in the cosmos of eternity. The sweet steps and movements from left to right shall provide an expression of your light...."


Peace and love,

Suzanne


Posted by: suzanne at September 13, 2005 09:33 PM

Thought()

Input = thought

Is this a fear based thought?

If yes then discard
end if

Else

Is this a Love based thought

If yes then store or process
end if

Else > is this a rational thought?
If yes then maintain or store for analysis

Else Discard

Next thought

Loop Until Sleep = Yes

Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 13, 2005 10:05 PM

Ravi,

That was BRILLIANT.. 'Dance is not a means around the effects of conditioning it is the ever increasing manifestation of the dismantling of conditioning.'

I read somewhere that we all grow up with the weight of history on us. Our ancestors dwell in the attics of our brains as they do in the spiralling chains of knowledge hidden in every cell of our bodies. The thinking man though under a divine curse will liberate himself through knowledge and awareness and will penetrate the veil of illusion.

Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 10:39 PM

It's beautiful, both Leela and your post.

It's also the reason I answered the way I did on the "cancer" post.

"...However, because I have a certain amount of faith that this whole physical experience is "all good", ultimately I love the entire process...

In the end, the very end, I know that my spirit will appreciate the entire story as a whole no matter how it actually unfolds."

Posted by: Melanie at September 13, 2005 11:54 PM

It's beautiful, both Leela and your post.

It's also the reason I answered the way I did on the "cancer" post.

"...However, because I have a certain amount of faith that this whole physical experience is "all good", ultimately I love the entire process...

In the end, the very end, I know that my spirit will appreciate the entire story as a whole no matter how it actually unfolds."

Posted by: Melanie at September 13, 2005 11:54 PM

Leela is Prakriti..

Leela is celebrating life..

Lee'la is 'la affaire'..

Leela is 'Joy de vivre'..

Leela is 'just-being-you'!




Posted by: Peter Pan at September 14, 2005 01:42 AM

;)

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 02:21 AM

P. Pan: Sometimes we "forget" who we are--children playing (or Leela-ing), capable of "flying" anywhere at anytime--except when we use our unlimited powers of imagination--to forget!

Sooo....Peter--thinking of you! Always, and in All-Ways, My Unconditional Love to You--T. Bell


Posted by: David at September 14, 2005 02:22 AM

I think Peter Pan would like to dance..the English wals? Neverland or Disneyworld?
On the soul´s journey on the path to love,
or was it god or onconditional love?
synchrodestiny or tinkerbell is a nice companion,

Flying from one christmas to another,
in a space-time continuum,

But where´s Jane? with an applepie?
in any case,
A wild, non-stop freeweeling adventure!
http://livindreamswithpassion2.blogspot.com/

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 03:43 AM

http://badboyzinpoland.blogspot.com/

Love, Passion! and a smile ;)

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 14, 2005 03:49 AM

An observation:
The result of any of Richard's tests will be YES or NO depending upon what is already in the memory.
What is fear-based to one may not be fear-based to another, and so on.

Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 05:38 AM

Deepak Ji

You express the inexpressible like only you can. I read your words today as bursts of lightness and joy and then for a long while I just sit and marvel at how you capture the essence and also manage to embellish it. Truly, truly words are your dance.

And then your words danced their way to the immortal words of two others. Suddenly I remembered Kalidasa's epic poem Kumarsambhava, the erotic, lyrical masterpiece of the great dance of ecstacy between Shiva and Parvati(Shakti). And of course the inimitable Rumi on the Leela of dance;
“Dance, when you’re broken open.
Dance, if you’ve torn the bandage off.
Dance in the middle of the fighting.
Dance in your blood.
Dance when you are perfectly free.”

Thank You for a day filled with so much resonance

Love

Jasjit

Posted by: Jasjit at September 14, 2005 06:02 AM

Carol ,
By 'absolute' I guess I was just trying to emphasize that something cannot be labeled right or wrong without looking at the context. There is a famous story of a Satyavaadi meaning truth speaker. Satyavaadi practised the principle -do not lie. He never lied in his life. One day, when he was doing his meditation with closed eyes, he heard running foot steps and openning his eyes saw a scared man running for his life. The man went behind a bush and hid himself. He closed his again and went back to meditation. After a few minutes, he again heard thumping foot steps. On opening his eyes, he saw some armed men apparently in search of the man running away from them. When they saw Satyavaadi, they stopped and asked him whether he saw anybody pass by him, if so, whether he knew where he is because they want to catch him. It was clear to Satyavadi that the armed men would harm the scared man hiding behind the bush, if they find him. Satyavaadi, who would never fail in his principle of telling truth pointed the bush. The men then caught the man and killed him. After sometime, Satyavadi died and was taken to hell instead of to heaven. He asked Yama, the god of death, " I always spoke truth and never told a lie in my life, why didn't you send me to heaven?". Yama replied " You spoke truth alright. But you showed the robbers where the scared man hid. You could have saved his life by not telling truth. You did not have compassion. That is why you deserve punishment but not heaven. The implication is: compassion is right in this case but not telling truth which led to the killing

Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 06:24 AM

Thanks for the story Syamala. It gets your point across very well. Even though our ethics are context-based, the fear of literal interpretation was always present even in our society.

I think people tend to mix up various levels of abstraction while discussing these matters. At the ultimate Shiva/Shakti level there is no duality or notion of morality. But at the level of our mundane lives we do need to abide by codes of conduct and a sense of right and wrong.

Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 06:31 AM

Thanks, Syamala and Divya. I agree completely, thanks for expressing this so well.

Posted by: Carol at September 14, 2005 08:27 AM

Actually Shakti is the phenomenon of dance emerging from the dancer -Shiva.
Both are inseparable. The static aspect of Shakti is Shiva and the dynamic aspect of Shiva is shakti.
The ardhanarishwer - Shiva as half-male, half-female.
This is more or less same as the brahma and maya of Vedanta or purusha and prakriti of Yoga.
The inactive, static Shiva is like the eye of a storm - void, empty, devoid of any activity. Nishkriya.
But on the locus and foundation of this empty eye the entire phenomenon of storm is created.
So why the heck universe is created out of the shiva-shakti - just for the purpose of Leela. And leela in turn is purposeless !

However, at the mundane level, like deepak said - We are so full of conditioned responses that our days are pulled back into work, family, money, status, possessions, etc.--the whole machinery of duality rolls forward unstoppably.
Notwithstanding, mixing up of various levels of abstraction is not only accepted but encouraged in tantra bcs tantra disdains being straitjacketed in codes of right and wrong


Posted by: Kailash Khandelwal at September 14, 2005 09:07 AM

Kaveetaa,

There is no divine curse. Only a divine blessing. The forms and structures the divine generated were designed to afford the divine less boredom and more excitement.

Bondage is an unavoidable and necessary step in evolution for the One Intelligence (divine, if you like) to rise to the more complex levels of being, and thus, to the higher delight of managing One's own Body, the physical universe - as an interdependent multividual - several billions strong.

Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 09:22 AM

G,

I am stupid 50% of the time.(You are more intelligent, but that means you are still stupid 49.99% of the time.)

Last time I told you about my Enlightenment. That's the intelligent half. After the two hours in the park, I got a parking ticket. That's the stupid half.

I am obsessed with STUPIDITY all my life.

BUDDHA says,"STUPIDITY is the mother of all suffering."

How true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have studied all cultures on STUPIDITY.

In China, it is manifestated in its marshal arts. The first master created 10 perfect forms that were the best of the best. He taught his son 9 of them so that he was still the father & the best. The son taught his son 8 of the 9. By the tenth generation, there was only one form left.............. The perpetuity of ignorance.

In India, the saint found the truth. When he taught his disciples he added some myth onto it & his disciples did the same, & after the 10th generation, it's all myth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............................The perpetuity of ignorance.

In the West, they simply preach STUPIDITY.

There is this stupid place called Heaven. There is this stupid guy called God. If you are so stupid as to believe in them, you will end up in Heaven & with God.

51% of the people believe in IT.

Einstein said time & stupidity are the two infinite things on earth.

That means suffering is with us for ever.

The answer: keep it simple, you stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Tyan at September 14, 2005 10:18 AM

DEAREST DEEPAK,
I LEARNED ONE WORD LONG TIME AGO AND CHANGED MY LIFE AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT I TOLD THEM ABOUT IT. "DEDENSELESSNESS"
I AM PERSIAN AND HAVE A VOICE THAT SO MANY PEOPLES TIMES AND TIMES TOLD ME THAT IS VERY SOOTHING..I WOULD LOVE TO SHARE IT IN ONE OF YOUR CD... I LOVE RUMI AND HAVE ALL HIS POEMS AND EVERY THURSDAY NIGHT AT MY HOUSE IN HOUSTON TEXAS HAVE PRAYING AND MEDITATING AND ALWAYS PLAY YOUR CD. I SAW YOU LAST NIGHT AT UNITY CHURCH WAS WOUNDERFUL.LOVE DR. LILLIE TAAT

Posted by: LILLIE TAAT at September 14, 2005 10:24 AM

Divya,
I agree literal interpretation of morals and ethics is and was present in all soceties. It is because our selfishness ignores the guidance from that compassionate conscience (or consciousness) deep down which precisely knows what is right in any given context. We tend to interpret the code to suit our convenience.
I also agree that it is hard to pick suitable language to describe these abstract concepts that we are discussing and that is why the need for clarification to prevent conveying of unintended meaning.

Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 11:02 AM

More on trying to understand what is meant by "Leela transcends moral codes". There is nothing immoral going on in Leela and therefore there is no need for checking for moral codes there. I guess I do not understand why even talk about moral code in the context of Leela. To say that moral codes are causing a lot of problems in life and those problems do not exist in Leela because it is free of moral code is misleading. The suggestion that supression of sexuality by many moral codes is causing major problems in society is an example. It may be true. But freedom of sexuality creates problems as well if not more. We know promiscuity spreads AIDS. A pedophile would argue that he is doing nothing wrong. We heard about Rajnish, who called himself Bhagavan and Yogi,led a movement of sexual freedom and encouraged promiscuity among his followers. He certainly does not represent any Indian spiritual tradition, and for that matter any spiritual tradition. Such behaviors are not part of Leela.
Similarly, when Deepak says "Leela tells us that the basic pattern of life is desire. Knowing that, we can accept our desire nature and not try to repress or judge against it", we should not interpret it to condone our greed and lust thinking that we are in the state of Leela.


Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 12:05 PM

Actually, Lord Sri Krishna's life was said to be full of Leela. He was the lover of all Gpoikas. Many Indians do think that he was a play boy. I for one do not think that he was a play boy in the literal sense of the word but that his relationship with Gpoikas is symbolically carries a certain spiritual meaning.

Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 12:27 PM

Syamala - the phrase one generally hears is that "all this creation is god's leela". This refers to all of creation, including the dewdrops and rainbows on one hand and earthquakes and hurricanes on the other. This has its counterpart in human activity too, with compassion and heroism on one side and rage and spite on the other. Thus when they say leela transceds morals, I understand it to mean that this creation is what it is - just a play - it is not about being good or bad but more just a constant cause and effect cycle. However, at the human level, in order to go through life safely and soundly we need to develop some morals otherwise we'd go nuts.

Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 01:30 PM

If you remove all human beings on earth, then who decides what is moral or immoral?
The dewdrops and the rainbows would still be there, so would be earthquakes and hurricanes. All the processes of nature would still flow but without human distinctions of one being bad and other good.
Leela is the all-encompassing process of creation (sans mind). It is neither moral nor immoral.
Mind creates all the distinctions, good bad, ugly, moral, immoral, even the notion of cause and effect!
I am reminded of UG when he said - All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind , otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum.
Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!


Posted by: Kailash Khandelwal at September 14, 2005 02:52 PM

Ravi,
You said it very well "Dance should be enjoyed freely as the expression of the increasing spontaneity that comes from our liberation from conditioning, duality and ego, which allows us to move ever more with the grace and beauty of our original being – as consciousness and spirit." Life when free from ego is dance.

Posted by: Syamala at September 14, 2005 06:49 PM

Tyan quoted the Buddha: "STUPIDITY is the mother of all suffering"

Yes, Tyan, but bad conditioning is the mother of stupidity.

We may not be able to address stupidity. But you are wrong about suffering having to be with us for ever.

This is because we can address and correct conditioning.

Instead of wasting your time and ours preaching there is nothing we can do about suffering, let's find more and better ways for us to focus on our conditioning, and to clean it up.

As our conditioning gets cleansed of errors and contradictions, our stupidity should decrease.

And as our stupidity decreases, so will our suffering. And that's when we dance.

Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 07:47 PM

Kailash says:

"Mind creates all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral even the notion of cause and effect"

We seem to be mixing the false with the true here.

First of all, mind is a useless term, because it means different things to everyone who reads it, and therefore compounds confusion.

I suggest you start trusting your feelings from today. They may not be very acccurate at this time, given that you have been blunting their impact in your life.

However, as your conditioning gets gradually cleaned up from the scrutiny of your own consciousnes, the accuracy of your feelings will improve, and you will be able to navigate ever more accurately toward the most that you can be.

It is more useful to refer to the content of mind. The content of mind is conceptual, with memories, assumptions and imaginations.

Unfortunately, the most important conceptual content of our mind are our foundational convictions, such as our sense of self, and how the self relates to spirit, mind, matter, others, other creatures, and the rest of nature.

Virtually all of these convictions are conditioned into us early in life, first through our parents, and then through our teachers, long before we are aware that this uploading is taking place.

So the foundation of the content of our mind, our core identity assumptions, are conditioned into us.

So what you say about "all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral" might be true, because this stuff is conditioned into us.

But this is definitely not true of "cause and effect". This we can experience directly. We all use electricity, computers, networks, phones, cars, elevators, trains, and even planes. We take these things for granted, as being entirely reliable, because the knowledge on which they are constructed is based on cause and effect. Highly reliable cause and effect.

Take a more immediate example. These words are being written as an effect to the cause of your having written that earlier post from which I quoted you. If you hadn't written that post, these words wouldn't have been here.

So please don't repeat what someone else says simply because you respect him. Consider what is true or false from your own direct experience, and that is the beginning of correcting your conditioning.

When your experience contradicts your beliefs, that's when your beliefs have to be deleted and replaced with your truth.

Let's now get to another passage from your post. You quote UG:

"All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind , otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum.
Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!"

Yes, as we saw above, the conceptual content needs to be investigated. But not in the sense UG meant. The UG quote here refers to emotional input.

The feelings evoked by the sensory input of the barking of a dog and the 5th symphony are emotional responses, not mental responses. Feeling is a function of consciousness, not of the content of mind.

(For those who are still conditioned to regard themselves as their bodies, have replaced their true self, consciousness, with the Ego. And the Ego can distort our feelings. But even then, we can still distinguish coherence from meaninglessness, a word from a sound, music from noise.

Why should we devalue the only compass we have on this treacherous landscape of this dimension? If we stop trusting our feelings about the meaning or absence of it, we are truly lost, for then we would not be able to distinguish what can hurt or destroy us from what can heal or enhance us.


Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 08:20 PM

Kailash and others: Please ignore my preceding post to Kailash because the sequence of what I wrote somehow got garbled when I posted it to the blog. Here follows the correct sequence of my post to him:

----------------------------

Kailash says:
"Mind creates all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral even the notion of cause and effect"
We seem to be mixing the false with the true here.
First of all, mind is a useless term, because it means different things to everyone who reads it, and therefore compounds confusion.
It is more useful to refer to the content of mind. The content of mind is conceptual, with memories, assumptions and imaginations.
Unfortunately, the most important conceptual content of our mind are our foundational convictions, such as our sense of self, and how the self relates to spirit, mind, matter, others, other creatures, and the rest of nature.
Virtually all of these convictions are conditioned into us early in life, first through our parents, and then through our teachers, long before we are aware that this uploading is taking place.
So the foundation of the content of our mind, our core identity assumptions, are conditioned into us.
So what you say about "all the distinctions, good, bad and ugly, moral, immoral" might be true, because this stuff is conditioned into us.
But this is definitely not true of "cause and effect". This we can experience directly. We all use electricity, computers, networks, phones, cars, elevators, trains, and even planes. We take these things for granted, as being entirely reliable, because the knowledge on which they are constructed is based on cause and effect. Highly reliable cause and effect.
Take a more immediate example. These words are being written as an effect to the cause of your having written that earlier post from which I quoted you. If you hadn't written that post, these words wouldn't have been here.
So please don't repeat what someone else says simply because you respect him. Consider what is true or false from your own direct experience, and that is the beginning of correcting your conditioning.
When your experience contradicts your beliefs, that's when your beliefs have to be deleted and replaced with your truth.
Let's now get to another passage from your post. You quote UG:
"All tastes and judgments are construed of the mind, otherwise there is no difference between barking of a dog and the 5th symphony. Both produce equally valid sensation on the eardrum. Seems mind need to be discussed and investigated too!"
Yes, as we saw above, the conceptual content needs to be investigated. But not in the sense UG meant. The UG quote here doesn’t refer to a conceptual response. It refers to the emotional response.
The feelings evoked by the sensory input of the barking of a dog and the 5th symphony are emotional responses, not mental responses. Feeling is a function of consciousness, not of mind or its contents.
(Those who are still conditioned to regard themselves as their bodies, and have therefore replaced their true self, consciousness, with the Ego. The Ego can certainly distort our feelings. But even then, we can still distinguish coherence from meaninglessness, a word from a sound, music from noise. That is where consciousness is so different from mind.
Why should we devalue the only compass we have on this treacherous landscape of this worldly dimension? If we stop trusting our feelings about the meaning or absence of it, we are truly lost, for then we would not be able to distinguish what can hurt or destroy us from what can heal or enhance us.
Kailash, I suggest you start trusting your feelings from today. They may not be very acccurate at this time, assuming from your post that you have been blunting their impact in your life.
However, as your conditioning gets gradually cleansed by the scrutiny of your consciousness, you will become more alert to your feelings, the accuracy of your feelings will improve, and you will be able to navigate ever more accurately toward the most that you can be.


Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 14, 2005 08:33 PM

Well said Ravi. We seriously need more down-to-earth souls on this blog.

Posted by: Divya at September 14, 2005 09:26 PM

You can't teach an old spinster new tricks, as the saying goes.

I have spent more than 40 years with the Zen Buddhist camp. And finally I got my Enlightenment & my final payout was a parking ticket!!!

After that experience, I seem to have acquired a brand new pespective in life. Suffering is no suffering any more. Although I still have CML, still having blood test every week, bone marrow test every 3 months, & doubling my Gleevec dosage......& all the guys I try to pick up in the street.........

My favourite line,"Have you made love to a 50 year old spinster before?" Then I grinned & said, "Me neither!!!!", 10 seconds later.

I love to watch men's expression in their faces following that.

As a revenge for all the muslim women in this world!!


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And there was this Katrina hurricane(& they blame it all on wemen again!!!). I just sent in my Red Cross donation, less the parking ticket, of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would a traffic officer give a parking ticket to a chronically ill cancer patient??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Everyone has an answer !!!!!!

Conditioning!!!!!!!!

You can't condition me any more. You wise guy!!

You gurus!!!!!!

Posted by: Tyan at September 15, 2005 04:52 AM

Tyan,

You said, "In the West, they simply preach STUPIDITY. There is this stupid place called Heaven. There is this stupid guy called God. If you are so stupid as to believe in them, you will end up in Heaven & with God."

This is not indicative of the west and the west is actually just like ever other culture opposed to God and His ways.

You only say these things about God and Heaven that because you don't believe God to be supremely valuable. You say it is stupid because you believe that ending suffering is supremely valuable. The ultimate ends in your life seems to me to end suffering.

To me the scriptures are clear that their are forms of sufferings are there to help us grow in the faith. Consider the words of Peter, Jesus' well known disciple.


1 Peter 1:3-9
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls."


To me the Glory of God and His greatness is supremely valuable above the desire to end my own suffering. Obviously we are to work to end needless suffering, but the ultimate ends in my life is God and His greatness.


Posted by: Shawn Lynes at September 15, 2005 06:51 AM

Dear Deepak:

Your post warmed me all over to paraphrase a verse from an old pop song. On a serious note, I want to thank you for trying to make all of us remember--life and death (Kali/Shiva)what an incredible dance.

Sura

Posted by: sura at September 15, 2005 06:50 PM

Shawn Lynes,

GOD to me is timeless, plural, almighty, omnipotent, omnipresent....more than any imagination of mankind.

Some wise man says, "GOD give us life, & compassion & love. The devil gives us religions."

All religions demean GOD because out of their STUPIDITY, they think they can represent & speak for GOD.

According to Mr. Woodwards, little bush talked to his Father up in Heaven & not to his earthly father who was also the President of America before he started the war in Iraq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine this in America in the 20th Century?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Mr. Chopra didn't speak against it.

Nobody did.

Thus all the suffering!!!!

Little bush promise you everything. Only GOD can deliver.

Posted by: Tyan at September 16, 2005 08:44 PM

I think of Asia as the grandparents (whose wisdom is often neglected). I think of Europe and the MidEast as the parents and in-laws,(always feuding among themselves.) I think of America as the rebellious teenager, lacking manners, wanting freedom, and not knowing how to get it. America's political policys in the world have been shameful...the Shah of Iran, leaving our Vietnamese friends, bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There was a movie called "The Ugly American" which spoke to this. So it is not so much the rest of the world we have to watch out for, it is us. In school we learned to read and write. Now we have to read and write. Speaking to the cultural education into which one has been born, (maybe that was another site), but as Ram Dass exclaimed, "I've been had!".

Posted by: Sherry at September 18, 2005 08:16 AM

Sherry: Ditto about your human analogies regarding the various "ages" of different cultures and locations.

Isn't Ram Dass sooo....fun and cool! Dave

Posted by: David at September 18, 2005 09:23 AM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The life of Patacara,
a woman who lived in India at the time of the Buddha, a real strong, young, & beautiful woman.

(dedicated to the most privileged & the most intelligent!)

[Time 550 B.C.] When her parents picked out a prospective husband for her, she secretely married instead a servant who had long been her lover. The consequence of that allegiance to her own heart was rejection by her family. She and her husband had to leave and made their home in a distant part of India.

It was the custom in that culture for a woman to return to her mother's house when it was time to give birth. She could not make it for her first child. With the second child, she started her trek alone because of her stupid husband's resistance. He soon followed.

He found them deep in the woods as a fierce storm began picking up. As he gathered wood to build a shelter for his child & pregnant wife, he was bitten by a snake & died.

Patacara gave birth alone. She sheltered her newborn & her other child with her body as the storm raged on.

She had to cross a large river to get to her parents' place. She could not cross with both children. She told the toddler to stay put & entered the water carrying the newborn.

She crossed the river, settled the newborn into a nest of leaves, & began to make her way back for her other child. But when she reached mid-river, to her horror, she saw a hawk swoop down, ed up the baby, & began carrying it away as prey. Her only child hearing her cry, thought she was calling him to come to her. He ran into the water towards her, & she watched as he was swept up in the waves and drowned.

--------------Bonnie Myotai Treace---------------

Patacara made her way to her old home, all alone.

Nobody showed any welcome. All showed disdain.

Patacara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wept for you! Patacara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Ignorance is the mother of all suffering."-----------Buddha

Patacara was Enlightened & stayed with Buddha for the next 20 years to help the helpless.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Posted by: Tyan at September 21, 2005 04:57 PM

Posted by: Nayt at September 21, 2005 05:00 PM

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Posted by: Nayt at September 21, 2005 06:59 PM

http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/09/leela_the_dance.html

LEELA, THE DANCE OF CREATION
posted by Deepak Chopra on September 12, 2005 at 12:45 PM

Divya has asked an interesting question about the relationship between Leela, the creative play of the cosmos, and design, the structure of the cosmos.

She uses the phrase "Leela versus design" the same way that cosmologists today would say "chaos versus order." I wonder if this opposition is really accurate.

Forms are always the end-product of a process, and over time every form is dissolved into another process. Creation and destruction are two aspects of the same ongoing flow. So far, we aren't in deep water, but the problem is that any duality is untrue to the ultimate Advaita, or non-dual view that lies at the heart of Vedanta. Since the human mind seems constructed along dualistic lines, its struggle to understand non-duality runs against the grain. Therefore, it is much simpler and feels more natural to seize one side of a dualistic argument and defend it even though every culture has the concept of Oneness, Allah, Brahman, Yahwah, the Absolute--an all-encompassing divine force.

Living your own life depends on duality. It's hard not to think in terms of opposites when everything is a choice, when the brain is constantly accepting and rejecting, when judging between right and wrong is so prevalent. India is extremely fortunate to have a non-dual legacy, because for all intents and purposes every other world religion has abandoned it.

As Divya points out, our heritage isn't moral, in the sense that God dictates a strict line between the holy and the unholy. There is no purpose in the universe the way Judgment Day implies a purpose to Christians. Nor is there even a spiritual purpose in a person's life, in the sense that obeying God's commands and hoping to win heaven instead of hell brings purpose to Christians, Muslims, and other faiths.

What we have instead is Leela, the play of creation. Which on the surface seems like an empty, aimless concept. After all, every society vastly prefers work to play. Yet in what way is dancing without purpose? To exhibit grace and beauty is a purpose. So is holding your balance while moving. So is organizing your limbs with control and skill. So is keeping centered and focused on what you are doing.

If you can accept that a dance has purpose, then Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity. Leela isn't doing a brainless seductive dance. There is balance, organization, centeredness, etc. Which is what the word "design" implies once we take it beyond the simplistic notion of a tinkering God who sits in a workshop making the universe the way a cobbler makes shoes.

I'd like to take this up against in a later post.


Comments
beautifully stated, Deepak...

and as a dance...you may take both/or either steps in duality recognizing that This is One Dance...love, Carolyn

Posted by: carolyn_wind at September 12, 2005 01:03 PM

Dear Deepak,
Is it possible - that the 'dance' really has no inherent 'purpose'. All meanings are relative to what an individual, and groups - assign.

Is being, without doing, the 'highest' form to attain?

And 'once there' - do we not unite into the One?

~~ K


Posted by: K at September 12, 2005 01:26 PM

Deepak,

Understanding this is what leads to an end of all the worlds conflict. What you wrote contains essential insight and it has a very positive effect, it is the best thing I read today.

The infinite player is all about playing for the fun of playing, and although they may engage a finite game they never forget that the winner and loser are one and the same.
~Infinite Play The Movie




Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 02:28 PM

Dear Deepak,

Thank you for taking up this fascinating topic. The concept of Leela flashed into my mind as I was mulling over your recent articles on ID. However, I did not mean to pitch Chaos vs. Order, but rather Randomness vs. Purpose.

The concept of Design, specially adorned with an adjective such as intelligent, cannot explain the misery and ugliness in the world. The concept of Leela does not run into any such problems. Moreover, the concept of Design is absent from all Asian thought - Japanese, Chinese, and of course, all of the Indic traditions, as well as from the Native American and African traditions.

Can we see Leela as purpose? Or can we just make the most of this Leela, rejoice in it, dance along with it? Or else stew in it, be driven to madness by it, grovel in misery?

Regards,
Divya

Posted by: Divya at September 12, 2005 02:30 PM

Dear Deepak,
Is it possible that there is this cosmic dance just for its own sake instead of having any purpose behind this cosmic play/drama/dance

Love,
Venky

Posted by: Venky at September 12, 2005 02:46 PM

Hi Deepak,
Leela's purpose is the joy of awakening - and also the joy of the dance. When we let go of our egos illusion of self importance and quit taking ourselves and life so seriously, then we begin to appreciate the delicious flavors and sensations inherent in the dancing itself - as well as the ecstacy of awakening to our True Nature.
For me, what often interferes with the enjoyment of this dance is fear (of death, of the truth that OMG I'm not all that important!)...
Okay, so there are a few other things that interfere too, but if I could just get over that klesha I'd be home free - and dancing to my seductive hearts content, just for the pure joy of it.
Love, Kristin

Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 12, 2005 03:12 PM

And of course, since this is after all a partnered dance, we have to come to an understanding about who is best at taking the lead, don't we?

Posted by: Doug at September 12, 2005 03:48 PM

Deepak says:

"Since the human mind seems constructed along dualistic lines, its struggle to understand non-duality runs against the grain."

I am glad you said "seems". We should not encourage the delusion that dualism is intrinsic to our minds. This discourages even the attempt to overcome dualism, which is the first and the last error that every one of us must learn to correct and surpass.

Indeed, the human mind is NOT constructed along dualistic lines. It is not a constructed thing. It is an uploaded thing at all. It is a rather a programmed thing.

Our minds are determined by our conceptual content. And its conceptual content is uploaded into us from early childhood.

When the conceptual domain first emerged among us, we were not aware of it. We did not know it was mediating between us and our experiences. So we were not aware that it was taking the form of our sensory experiences, which were based on distinctions (boundaries) between what we noticed and what we didn't.

So the granular nature of our sense experiences were replicated in their copies as conceptual units (memories). And the granular nature of our conceptual content became the filter through which we interpreted everything we experienced.

Indeed, whereas distinctions at the sensory level were only appearances, the counterparts of these distinctions in their conceptual replication became absolute, projecting a granular and scattered model of a reality, that despite the appearace of sensory distinctions, were ultimately a seamless and fluid unity.

Those who learn to withdraw the focus of their attention from the sensory world toward the conceptual filter that interprets it for us, can begin the process of identifying our conceptual errors and contradictions, and gradually resolve them.

This is what everyone must know, we can overcome the appearance of duality in our mind, by correcting the problem where it is situated, in the conceptual content in our minds.

Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 03:51 PM

GOD(plural, the almighty, the omnipotent, the omnipresent, timeless...)give us life so that we can enjoy it, no more & no less.

Chaos Theory has it that a butterfly flapping its wings in Central Park in New York can cause a tornado in South Africa.

I sneezed at 6.00 a.m. on Saturday, June 11, 2005 in Canada and since then California has had four earthquakes.

GOD also create tha ant colonies, the honey-bee making honey, the million species of moths, cancerous cells, virus..........................,the Law of Cause & Effect.

The Law of Cause & Effect controls every single minute of our lives; we cannot live apart from it.

Every little part of our lives, even our mental activities of perception, emotion, and volution, play out according to the Law of Cause and Effect.

Therefore, if we seek a joyous life, we should sow good seeds. Then we will taste the sweetness of our good fruit.

There is nothing in this world that can escape the Law of Cause & Effect. Once unwholesome karms is done, a bad effect will surely follow (for example, if you fart, it stinks!). If we stop creating bad karma and keep producing good karma, we will be free from suffering one day and we will attain true joy.

Only IGNORANCE can prevent us from escaping suffering.

The only Enlightenment is through Ultimate Wisdom.

A good dancer can bring inspiration to millions & save thousands from taking their own lives that GOD give them.

GOD's will is thus not done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted by: Tyan at September 12, 2005 03:58 PM

.
wow..

Some Quotes
"The feet may learn the steps, but only the spirit can dance"

"Dance isn't a form it's a way of life"

"Dancers are the athletes of God", Albert Einstein

"We dance for laughter, we dance for tears, we dance for madness, we dance for fears, we dance for hopes, we dance for screams, we are the dancers, we create the dreams"

"To dance is to be out of yourself. Larger, more beautiful, more powerful. This is power, it is glory on earth and it is yours for the taking", Agnes De Mille

"If dancing were any easier it would be called football"

"Dancing with the feet is one thing, but dancing with the heart is another"

"I don't have an attitude, I'm just REALLY good!", Dance Caravan

"The people who do not dance are the dead", Jerry Rose, Dance Caravan

"Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but she did it backwards and in high heels"

"You know you're dancing when tears of pain and happiness blend in with your sweat"

"Dance is the hidden language of the soul and the body", Martha Graham

"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance"

"We do not always dance because we are happy, But we dance and cannot help but become happy"

"Someone need not be perfect to be a great dancer - feeling a soul is more important than what the body can do", Marcia Haydée, Dance Magazine

"Dancers offer us our only earthly chance to catch a glimpse of the angelic host"

"Work like you don't need the money LOVE like you've never been hurt DANCE like there's no body watching!"

Love, Passion! and a dance...


Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 12, 2005 04:04 PM

“What we have instead is Leela, the play of creation. … Yet in what way is dancing without purpose? To exhibit grace and beauty is a purpose…

If you can accept that a dance has purpose, then Leela turns out to be the connection between the Absolute (Shiva) and manifestation (Shakti), between eternal, silent, unmoving, unqualified Being and the universe of becoming, with its infinite diversity. …” ~ Deepak Chopra

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to dance, so this was very beautiful to read. Many, many years ago, I use to get asked to participate in dance contests, but never did, as I so enjoy the very act of dancing and not the competition … disappointed a lot of partners … oh, well. I still love to dance, but it is more private now.

Love,
Char


Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 04:19 PM

K asks:

"Is being, without doing, the 'highest' form to attain?

" And 'once there' - do we not unite into the One?"

We are, every last one of us, already in our highest form, all one and the selfsame being.

So there is nothing to attain, but the removal of the conceptually projected delusion that we are all discrete and separate entities.

And once "here", we merely recognize that oneself and all others were already One.

Attainment implies a journey (distance and delay) between oneself and a desired state.

This very act of deferring the attainment of one's true state perpetuates our bondage in duality, if only because the highest we can attain was already always here. We only thought we were not.

So, instead of seeking and pursuing, consider purging what is keeping us from recognizing this.

The model of cleaning up a fliter that is already here is very different from pursuing what is also already here as thought it were not here. The latter only worsens the problem by deferring what cannot be deferred, if only because it was already always here.

Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 04:36 PM

"We are, every last one of us, already in our highest form, all one and the selfsame being.

So there is nothing to attain, but the removal of the conceptually projected delusion that we are all discrete and separate entities.

And once "here", we merely recognize that oneself and all others were already One."
Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal

How shocking to realize that we always have been This...love, Carolyn


Posted by: carolyn_wind at September 12, 2005 04:52 PM

Does a chick come first or an egg come first?

Unanswerable!!

At best, an exercise in futility!

At worst, a fool's worry that the sky is going to fall tomorrow.

Science is a systematic study of the material world. Faith is a great leap forward from nothing to reality.

Let us keep our faith & keep up with our scientific evolution at the same time.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humankind exists until everything is annihilated!!!!

Yin & Yang are the two ends of the continuum. The end of one is the beginning of the other.

Absolute silence is the loudest sound on earth.

Complete stillness is the ultimate movement that can possibly exist.

Perfect rationality is complete insanity.

The ultimate answer is GOD.

And GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind.

New discoveries, like web bloggers, real life, on-line communication...are our only salvation.

Science is our solution.

GOD(faith) is our answer!!!

Posted by: Tyan at September 12, 2005 04:53 PM

Deepak,
Just an FYI The fossils post does not come up and stay up, not sure if anyone else is experiencing this...

Joanie

Posted by: Joanie at September 12, 2005 04:57 PM

Hi Ravi,
Thanks for your post. It prompts another queston(s)!

It does 'seem' life is a progression - certainly this is apparent in form, as one ages

This is apparent in nature as well.

Are we 'seduced' by the dance, by duality. Is the 'purpose' of human life to see, touch, feel, communicate? (control) While the 'soul' sleeps in the form, and awaits - what?

Thanks for sharing!
~~ K




Posted by: K at September 12, 2005 05:30 PM

As James Joyce might have put it, "Every leela son of advaita is born of a voidgin."

http://www.paragonhouse.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=89_93&products_id=377

Posted by: Robert Godwin at September 12, 2005 05:43 PM

K asks:

"Are we 'seduced' by the dance, by duality. Is the 'purpose' of human life to see, touch, feel, communicate? (control) While the 'soul' sleeps in the form, and awaits - what?"

Consciousness doesn't sleep in the form by choice. Consciousness is kept in bondage in the form by the conceptual delusion that one is the form.

So our purpose is not to be released. This is only a necessary step. Our purpose is to think and speak and act, to learn and solve and create and produce - from our true identity as consciousness when the delusion is corrected at our conceptual filter.

Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 06:01 PM

Joanie - I was able to access the Fossils post from my home computer but it does not come up on my work computer. I think a few others have said they're having problems with it.

Posted by: Divya at September 12, 2005 06:04 PM

Deepak and Divya, very thought-provoking. After thinking about this discussion for a time, I remembered that I was flipping through TV channels the other night and happened to see this show where scientists had managed to both film (with some crazy camera equipment) and capture (with some strange tube) some deep sea creatures that had never been seen before--this was at incredibly deep sea depths never reached before. The scientist was making new discoveries as they filmed--"That's a new one!", he'd say. "There's another new one!"
These creatures were SO bizarre-looking that I was dumbfounded. Why, I thought, would "God" make life, where it cannot be seen (without the assistance of lighting and scientists and all this high-tech camera stuff)--in the darkest place in the world--the most eccentric-looking? Why would "he" make these creatures so unique in appearance, so colorful, so striking where they cannot be seen even by each other? I appreciate both of these interpretations--leela and design. There is no "tinkering God who sits in a workshop" (to quote Deepak), but even with that in mind, it seems that the intelligence behind creation must have made this deep sea life so surreal purely for its own amusement/enjoyment/entertainment. To me, that idea is kind of mind-blowing.

Posted by: dulcie at September 12, 2005 06:30 PM

The truth is we are all advanced beings and you are experiencing full immersion 3D TV. The entertainment of the future is now.

This Life is really just a TV show. So don't take it so seriously, or the joke is on you.

Okay so some people are saying the Drama can be pretty heavy, and I agree, but nobody would watch or participate if this wasn't the case.

If we can all remember, what we have forgot, as many have and do, it can become a divine comedy which always reaches it's greatest heights after a good amount of drama.

Deep in the depth of space floats the Crystal City. It is here the audience watches, laughing and crying, cheering, and booing, wave to them they are watching now, and know only a brave soul would dare venture into the scene to participate becoming an actor in the grandest play of all.

~Infinite Play The Movie

http://infiniteplaythemovie.com/

Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 06:40 PM

Tyan says:

"The ultimate answer is GOD.

And GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind."

There is only GOD. There is no other agency. When any one thinks, it is GOD that's thinking. When anyone speaks, it is GOD that is speaking. When anyone does anything, it is GOD that is doing it.

So mankind is only on kind of manifestation of GOD. So when we say GOD is completely out of the imagination of mankind, we are actually GOD saying that ONESELF is completely out of OUR OWN observational field.

And this is because it is GOD who is doing the observing, and what is observing can never be observed by what is observing, any more than a camera can view itself, or a fingertip can touch itself.

When GOD realizes that ONE is all there is, ONE stops elevating ONESELF with the term GOD. We then seek a more functional term that can be used to awaken ONESELF in other human manifestations, by referring to ONESELF as Consciousness, or Awareness, etc.

Posted by: Ravi Arapurakal at September 12, 2005 06:40 PM

I could not get the "Fossil" post to open either ... not last night at home, nor at work today. ????? Hey, maybe it's evolved and hind it's past

Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 07:10 PM

Of course that would be 'hid' and not 'hind' ...

Posted by: char at September 12, 2005 07:17 PM

Well Ravi, is basically hitting the nail on the head.

God "The Great Pretender" and just whom are you pretending to be?

Everyone laughed at the fool, thinking they were greater than he, but it was the fool that was free for he had forsaken ego. The joke was on them.

On a side note is there any Indian Lore about the "fool"?

Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 07:19 PM

The fossil post glitch is interesting. I have been entertaining the idea that there is a divine reason for events such as these. Something that a finite mind could not comprehend but orchestrated by the infinite mind. Many would say it is a flaw an imperfection, and for sure that is what we would find it to be with the finite mind. Yet with the infinite mind we would see that it was perfection, there was one that was not meant to see, two that were distracted from what worried thee, and still more that simply were filled with wonder at what it could be.

Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 07:30 PM

Doug,
Hmmm... who is best to lead shiva or shakti? I imagine it to be a passionate exchange where both take the lead at different times until that moment when they dissolve into Oneness again.
But I'm a romantic...
How about you?
Love, Kristin

Posted by: Kristin Masterton at September 12, 2005 08:36 PM

Wish I could agree that every culture has its value of oneness. The facts belie this statement what with Father ,Son and Holy spirit, and the many,many dieties of many worshippers world over.

Oneness or duality however the dance is never perfect, complete, graceful, symmetrical sensuous, wonderful, elgant, artistic,nor,reproductive as when it is done in partnership with another and that takes choreography which is design.The twain are really quite inseparable.
eldora

Posted by: eldorablandinlougheide at September 12, 2005 08:36 PM

Well, My son who is almost 6 has been on this wave length lately.. He starts by telling me last week that everything is made from molecules. We went on further to discuss this and how everything he touch was a source of energy. What struck a cord with me, is how open my six year old son is but as we all age we tend to really hold onto the concepts that seem most accurate to us. The ones that resinate most with us.

Next, my son just asked me how did this all start? Who was first one man? Big question?
Not really having a concrete answer for him. I told him there are a lot of theroies out there but "we" man started in many shapes and forms. I believe that many came into existance at once.

As for who or what orchestrated this existance.. it becomes very certain to me each day that we did. We are the "intelligent design". Being that my background is design and architecture... these words have great meaning to me not just from a scientific, sturctural energy but from a conceptual and philosophical energy..

As you said best Deepak- "There is balance, organization, centeredness, etc. Which is what the word "design" implies once we take it beyond the simplistic notion of a tinkering God who sits in a workshop making the universe the way a cobbler makes shoes."

As someone who creates and designs it comes from within and it has chaos and order- randomenss and repitition.

I must disagree with Divya- Intelligence Design does explain misery and ugliness in our world. You can look at it abstractly from the point of a great painting or building or architecture. Every component of that object contains thought and desgin. The very thoughts and concepts create the design. It is our very thought and design creating this very moment as we sit here and blog and debate. The ugliness as we percieve it is only our perception. And because we all have different percetions stimulating us to disagree or agree leaves us with opposites.. Bad-Good art, bad- good music, bad- good architecture, bad good life, bad- good people.... or does it?... for is it not just our perception of what we prefer?

As a great building stands exalted to the sky...so do the ruins of ancient past... All with a different story.... intrinsic to one central force...the universe.

Peace and love,

Suzanne

Posted by: snooze5 at September 12, 2005 09:34 PM

Deepak,

There is a query whch has plagued me for aeons .. maybe thats the reason I am reborn time and again in different avatars.

On the level of understanding, shiva and his dance of creation is something we Hindus live with.So all the doubts and confuson over It has to a large extent been sorted out mainly through Buddhas analysis. The theory Of Advaita I conform to totally. Like a dancer who is dancing with a pot of water balanced on her head, while the world sees her taking twirls , all she is concerned about is that not even a drop of water should spill from the pot. So similarly our focus has to be on liberation ,in merging ourselves with the One while living our life to its fullest.

My question is that If there was in the beginning just this One Intelligence ,All pervasive,All encompassing, where did Ignorance take birth from?? How Can Intelligence give birth to Ignorance?? How could have it been our choice to be separated from this Intelligence?

As a corollary, If it is the nature of Shiv to maifest As shakti, How can shakti Be ignorant?

Posted by: kaveetaa at September 12, 2005 09:45 PM

On the one hand, everyone seems to acknowledge that existence cannot be completely experienced or understood within a strictly logical and rational framework. Yet, everyone seems to try to articulate it logically. Obviously, this exercise is going to fall short.

An understanding of existence or creation cannot emerge from the mind whose input is only from the 5 sense organs. We must have the humility to acknowledge these limitations. Once the "I don't know" is clear then the possibility of knowing would possibly emerge.

I have had the fortune of being guided into (for a limited time) states of being that are illogical and ecstatic by a Guru who has the ability to guide your energies.

In fact, there is a 7 day session called "Leela, the play" later this month... that would help one to experience Leela.

Posted by: vish at September 12, 2005 11:10 PM

Perhaps the answer lay in attention and intelligence.

Have you ever seen someone burn food cooking on the stove because they had their attention in the wrong place? One could say that is pretty ignorant, and we would agree that the person does not want this to happen, yet it does. It can happen to the most intelligent. Perhaps one can be distracted by appearances which gives birth to ignorance.

Just some thought

Posted by: Richard Thomas at September 12, 2005 11:25 PM

On a blog like this one ,we with our "limited senses" cannot by any stretch of imagination hope to ever decipher what 'state of being ' the others on this blog may have experienced. This is not the place to eulogise about our personal glories, because if they were truly those, then language and attitude would have been a lot more compassionate and energising

It is a given that most people who are taking time off to write here are those who are serious seekers,who must have traversed some part of their journey and must have crossed certain junctions . Elmentary answers which they have dealt with, is not what they are looking for. Why should one consider any religion especially Hinduism to give post dated cheques, the answers to which will come after ... vivekanada has said that the mind should be sincere in its thirst , only then will it be quenched.. This question was meant for Deepak, who I guess would understand its import.

Posted by: kaveetaa at September 12, 2005 11:33 PM

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

In the last few years I have experienced the deaths of members of my family, so I am contemplating form and the loss of form, a lot.

I ask myself how I would feel about losing my form, my identity? How would I feel about not being me anymore? Could I give up my identity? Being Ruth,I have experienced joy and sorrow, triumph and failure, births and deaths. I realize how much I love my form, the form of Ruth. It sounds strange to be thinking and feeling this way, but I am exploring.

I know myself beyond the form and identity of Ruth so I am at home beyond form, but the love I feel for Ruth is rich and deep. I can only imagine how the ONE must enjoy the creation of a myraid of form, endlessly. To experience the love of the creation is all encompassing.

Posted by: ruth at September 13, 2005 05:28 AM

An excerpt from "Consciousness and the Absolute", The final talks of Sri Nisrgadatta Maharaj:
'You are bent on having knowledge at the most mundane level, but whatever knowledge you collect is bound to disappear.
There is only one truth in the world, and that is that everything is unreal.'

Posted by: Bob Fisher at September 13, 2005 05:31 AM

Another word that is close to GOD is Enlightenment.

HE (IT. GOD) can only be experienced, not explained in words or by any other means.

I experienced Enlightenment.

I just had three blood samples taken. Two hours later, they put a needle into my hip bone & drew a few cc of my bone marrow for testing.

Then I walked out of the Cross Cancer Hospital.

The sun was shining & a soothing breeze was warming up my whole body. So I strolled to the nearby park instead of going to my car.

The sky was as blue as it can be. The leaves were green. Geese in pairs were puddling in the pond, tens of them.

At that moment, my worries seemed to have melted away. I felt this utmost ectasy in my mind, in my heart, in my whole body.....That huge oak, that's me; the kids running chasing after the balloons, that's me...........................
"Am I dying?
Am I seeing GOD?
No! I am GOD!"

I was just floating, or flying in the air,in space.....

I never had this 'complete' "wholeness" feeling in my life.

I was the sky. I was the trees. I was the world.
I was GOD!!!!

I could feel & see & hear the white blood cells & the plasmas
& the red blood cells & the blast cells merging & working together & they were me.

I was not myself. Yet everything I saw, I heard, I felt......was me!!!There was no difference. Everything was me. GOD was in me. GOD was me.
I then fully realized what ONENESS was about.

Was I real crazy or was that Enlightenment????

I was not sure & I am not sure.

But at that very moment, I was in complete control of myself(was there a 'myself'?), of the world, of all the happenings.........
I was in complete ectasy, joy....

I was nothing & I did not feel I had a body. Just some kind of consciousness, some energy that penetrated all universe!!

For how long? I didn't remember.
But I spent approx. two hours in the park that day.

After that, nothing really happened.

But I stopped having nightmares about my incurable leukeimia since then.

I live with the Universe!!

I still don't know what, or who GOD is!!

But GOD is here, is there, & is everywhere!!!!

GOD give us life to be enjoyed. No more & no less!!!




Posted by: Tyan at September 13, 2005 06:15 AM

Great article and great comments every one of them. I find it interesting that mostly, they are all saying the samething in so many different ways.
Deepak says "the dance really has no inherent purpose" and Richard says "The infinite player is all about playing for the fun of playing". To me they mean the same thing.
K, I agree with you - all meanings are relative to what an individual, and groups - assign. I wish we, as a group, have a common understanding of what words we use with what meaning. While on this subject, I agree with Ravi Arapurakal that the phrase "levels of consciousness" used on this blog is confusing. So are the phrases "evolution of consciousness" and "mutation of consciousness". Consciousness is just one and never changing with no levels in it. We may talk about evolution of human intelligence or human mind.

Suzanne,
I agree with you that Design does explain why there is misery in the world. A game cannot be designed without a win state and a loss state. If I play with the purpose of winning, and I lose then I feel miserable. But if I play just for the fun of it and not care about win or loss, I have fun irrespective of whether I win or lose and playing is then Leela to me. It implies that I identify myself with both the winner and the loser.
Another example of opposites being inevitable
parts of Design: Deepak points out "creation and destruction are two aspects of the same ongoing flow." So true, we all enjoy Christmas and look forward to it throughout the year. We set up the Christmas tree, beautifully decorate it, invite friends over and we know all that merriment. After January 2nd, or at the end of January, or sometime or other, we have to remove the tree, and we may not feel like doing it and miss its beautiful looks. But if we don't, we will not have the excitement of setting the up the tree on the eve of the next Christmas.

Posted by: Syamala at September 13, 2005 06:37 AM

Tyan,

That was so beautifully written.. I have shared a simslar experience of this bliss.. indescribable. It opened me up. I was asthmatic for very many years before that and could not live without the inhaler.. But it vanished and has not returned for the past 7 years or so..It only encouraged me to dig in my heels deeper .. I have to know more and more and more..Therefore my question why were we ever separated from that Oneness?

Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 07:06 AM

Tyan,

That was so beautifully written.. I have shared a similar experience .. indescribable..blissful.. It opened me up. I was asthmatic for very many years before that and could not live without the inhaler.. But after that day it vanished and has not returned for the past 7 years or so..It only encouraged me to dig in my heels deeper .. I have to know more and more and more..Therefore my question why were we ever separated from that Oneness?

Posted by: kaveetaa at September 13, 2005 07:08 AM

To kaveetaa,

To experience the contrast,
Neale Donald Walsh

(and for re-creational purposes..Vedanta

We are all born for love...it is the principle existence and it's only end. ---Disraeli

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:14 AM

Life is a song --- sing it.
Life is a game --- play it.
Life is a challenge --- meet it.
Life is a dream --- realize it.
Life is a sacrifice --- offer it.
Life is love --- enjoy it.

Sai Baba,

I would like to re-edit the sacrifice part,
sue, if nessecary, and ad:

Life is a joke, may I share a smile with you?
Life is a aggreement, shall I draw up the contract?
Life is a dance, may I have this dance?

Life is a fairytale, but only if you believe...

Peter Pan,
Neverland

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:20 AM

Life is a song --- sing it.
Life is a game --- play it.
Life is a challenge --- meet it.
Life is a dream --- realize it.
Life is a sacrifice --- offer it.
Life is love --- enjoy it.

Sai Baba,

I would like to re-edit the sacrifice part,
sue, if nessecary, and ad:

Life is a gift, may I offer it?
Life is a joke, may I share a smile with you?
Life is a aggreement, shall I draw up the contract?
Life is a dance, may I have this dance?
Life is a painting, where is my brush?
Life is a miracle, don´t you believe...?

Peter Pan,
Neverland

Posted by: marek dariusz podsiadlo at September 13, 2005 07:23 AM

http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2005/09/many_worlds_and.html#more

Many Worlds and Five Koshas
posted by Deepak Chopra on September 15, 2005 at 02:18 PM

In a recent post, Shaye responded, "I think there are as many worlds within this world as there are people in it."

I think this must be true, for we know that karma is highly individual, as is perception, memories, life history, and so on. Recently I have been researching theories of the afterlife, and I was struck that there may be as many worlds in the afterlife (loka, bardos, heavens and hells). With millions of worlds proliferating, how are they connected? If we can answer that, we might get hold of the difficult problem of changing this world.

I'd like to suggest that consciousness unites these many worlds. We can take the Vedic concept of Koshas that divide consciousness into layers without actually changing its basic nature. Kosha is translated as sheath, layer, or envelope, but it's easiest to think of pure consciousness as a point that wraps five bodies around itself like layers of an onion. I don't want to discuss the five Koshas at length except to say that pure consciousness takes on the body of bliss, then the body of ego and intellect, the body of mind, the body of Prana (subtle breath, life force), and finally the physical body.

Each person's consciousness is contained within the five Koshas, but so is society, and so is humanity. The Kosha are shared levels of reality as well as individual levels. So the analogy of the onion breaks down when we see that the various Koshas aren't the same. You can claim your body as your own, but even that is shared--the air you breathe today contains millions of atoms of oxygen that were in China being breathed out a few days ago. Still less can you claim that Prana is yours, because the animating force that imbues life operates equally through every living thing.

As you peel away the Koshas, they become more universal. Mind is composed of thoughts, and we all know how fast a thought spreads around the world. Even ego, the sense of "I," permeates consciousness in general. When God appeared to Moses in the burning bush, he described himself as the "I Am." Now we are very close to the source, and the layer closest to pure consciousness--Anandamaya Kosha or the body of bliss, is the first, primal vibration of manifested self but also the hum of the universe.

I thought this was a fascinating way to link the physical world with the worlds of the afterlife, because the Koshas must exist in both realms. My aim all the time is to build a case for one reality, and this helps. Any step we can take toward uniting the gulfs of separation enables us to raise our own consciousness--here I am thinking about the gulf that separates life and death, but there is also the gulf between different people and different levels of consciousness, which feels more immediate, so let's look at that. I want to understand the whole "self system" that the Koshas make up.


Annamaya Kosha: The physical body is the most separate aspect of the self system. At birth most babies are very much alike physiologically, but by age seventy no two people's bodies are remotely alike. Time has made each of us a unique individual. This material fact underlies a great deal of the separation in the world, as people struggle to their share of good, money, possessions, and status. They want to promote the well-being of their physical bodies, to enhance its charm and beauty, to keep it young-looking, to protect it from the threat of injury and death.
At this level consciousness operates silently, without a voice, as it organizes the myriad functions of the body. Yet even here, if we look at what is happening at the cellular level, it turns out that consciousness is complete:
Cells cooperate, communicate, exchange functions, perform acts of self-sacrifice, remain in balance, keep aware of their environment, adapt to change, and know that they survive by being part of a greater whole.
Every Kosha reveals wholeness and separation at the same time. If we look upon Annamayi Kosha as the physical world, it's obvious that our bodies are isolated, one form another, and this gives rise to the illusion that one must struggle and compete with every other isolated body.
Yoga uses physical postures that combine balance, strength, and body awareness (Asanas) to bring a person to this level of self.

Pranamaya Kosha: In terms of the individual, Prana is the breath that sustains life. There is no equivalent in the West for Prana, although we do have a tradition called vitalism that centers on the "life force." Whatever name you use, the body is sustained by a subtler intelligence that participates in the physical world without itself being physical. Prana is vitality.
At this level people are united with all living things. When you feel that you share something with a pet or with animals in the wild, with flowers and Nature as a whole, you are feeling the flow of vitality that holds the ecosystem together. Suddenly the incredible intelligence that knits together every cell in the body expands, and it is no longer possible to say "I own this," the way you own your body.
Consciousness is still differentiated--there is no obvious connection between blue-green algae, tigers, geraniums, and human beings. But Prana acts as the binding force between all of these apparently separate forms.
The gulf that has to be bridged here has to do with higher and lower life forms. Consciousness doesn't recognize higher or lower, it orchestrates diversity into a wholeness. At every level we confront wholeness and separation together, and here the separation still seems to dominate over the wholeness, which is why human beings continue to depredate the ecosystem without realizing that they are destroying part of their own self-system.
Yoga uses exercises in conscious breathing (Pranayama) to bring the person to this level of self.

Manomaya Kosha: This is the mental body, the level at which we process the raw data of the world through the five senses. Mind sometimes includes emotions, sensations, memories, and other uses of the brain. But the root quality here is individual ideas and thoughts. You know who you are by what you think. You know who you are by what you remember about the past.
At this level consciousness faces a world of infinite diversity; it finds itself at play in the cosmos without boundaries, for the mind can fly anywhere, imagine anything. But since each Kosha is about separation as well as wholeness, Manomaya Kosha has lost some of that original quality of bliss. Your mind is free to interpret the world any way it wants, and some of those ways include ignorance of the self. It is impossible to restrict the mind, and many people fear such freedom. So at this level we come up against the self-created boundaries of belief, fear, and prejudice. Blake's "mind-forged manacles" create separation and repression where none need to exist.
Balanced against this is wholeness, for ideas aren't in fact individual. They are shared; they arise in groups and are sustained by groups. There aren't in truth separate isolated worlds that each of us fit into. We carve out individual niches in collective consciousness, and as a wave of evolution passes through humanity, each of us can decide to seize the wave or ignore it, to defend against it or embrace it.
Manomaya Kosha is therefore the level of evolution in consciousness, both for you and me and for human beings as a whole.
Yoga uses the whole field of discrimination (Gyan) to bring a person to this level of the self.

Vigyanmaya Kosha: This is the level of the ego, the sense of identity. Ego is a hot topic in the politics of spirituality, and its reputation is low. People feel it is their duty to kill the ego and control its impulses. However, the word Vigyan means realization that has no particular object. In popular usage it means science before any particular branch of science is mentioned. If we look at "I-ness" without any prejudice against the ego, this level of the self bring identity into being.
Identity isn't a blank. It becomes filled with attachments and associations. Vigyanmaya Kosha is that level where myth and archetypes operate. They give us knowledge about identity itself, what it means to be human. The gods play out primal desire, competition, family life, social interactions, love and war. They define the quests and visions of life.
In that way this Kosha unites human beings, but it also separates them through ego drives that clash with one another. To be fair, this clash develops in the mind, not in the ego itself. When we say ego, we usually mean the ego-personality, which is full of individual desires, dreams, beliefs, like and dislikes. Vigyan is closer to unity than that. At this level wholeness dominates over separation, as can be seen from the world's shared archetypes and myths.
Yoga uses mindfulness in all its various forms, such as contemplation and meditation, to bring a person to this level of the self.

Anandamaya Kosha: This is the body of bliss. At this level life is about the joy of being. It is about numinous presence and the inner knowledge that separation is a thin veil. Behind the veil shines the light of consciousness. One can also think of Ananda as the basic vibration, or hum, of the universe. It is the ground state from which all diversity springs. In its primal state Ananda isn't an experience but only the possibility for creation to manifest. This Kosha allows bliss to be felt.
One can imagine an afterlife where one no longer has a body, where there is no need for breath, where the mind doesn't process data anymore. But as long as there is individuality, there must be a faint sense of both ego and bliss. Ego says, "This is happening to me, I am the focus of life." bliss says, "I feel the spark of creation." Bliss is far from the feeling of happiness or even joy, though in diluted form it can be experienced as both. It is the vibratory connection that allows pure consciousness to enter into creation.
This Kosha reveals wholeness so entirely that there is only a shadow of separation. One could say that Anandamaya Kosha is pure Being mixed with just a touch of karma, just enough to allow someone to live in physical form, or in whatever form the afterlife takes. Without this sheath you would dissolve into Being and become bliss itself, without an experiencer.
Yoga uses transcending--deep awareness of Being (Samadhi) to bring a person to this level of the self.

The five Koshas, operating in unison, give rise to the self, or to put it more accurately, the self-system. In the next post I'd like to talk about the practical implications this holds for our future and what we want to achieve: raising consciousness everywhere.
Love,
Deepak